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Subject: Do Shuttles When Doing Re-entry ALWAYS draw an outcome card? rss

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Jim Scheiderich
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Title says it all...

I had the thought that it could be that way [Shuttle card says draw Re-entry] - you always had that risk - thus making the gloss on the Shuttles a bit less.

OTOH, this would be different than how anything else is handled in LE - once you clear Re-entry as an advancement that is it...

So there is a post:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1853485/first-solo-game where the player lost two Shuttles on Re-entry! I will benefit of the doubt that Re-entry was being tested with Shuttles instead of Vostok...

Which way is correct?
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greenjinjo
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You always draw re-entry. However, if there are no cards on your re-entry advancement, it counts as a success.
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Larry L
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I was testing re-entry with Shuttles, which was one of the many stupid mistakes I made that session. I mean, two exploded on launch, I must be out of major failures, right?
 
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Pawel Garycki
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If it was meant to always draw an outcome card, then we arrive at two interpretations:
a) Suppose the rule says you draw from Reentry outcomes if there are any. If none, than from the outcomes from the bank. This solution means that it does not pay off to completely clear off Reentry. It is better to test it until you are mostly certain that there are successes and necer clear it till null. This approach is counter-productive and counter-intuitive.
b) Now let's suppose the rule says you always draw from the bank, not from the outcomes on Reentry tech. Now it is always risky and provides an excellent solution to the legendary Shuttle rush exploit. Shuttle reusability may generate some costs from occasional major failures, restrict amount of uses per year on minor failures and making Mars/Venus Shuttle exploits riskier. The other benefit is that some demand for Vostok/Apollo may be created as Shuttle is always a risk. The only drawback is thematic: your testing of Reentry does not influence Shuttle reentry at all, but should it...?

I love your suggestion. This may resolve the Shuttle exploit problem to some degree without any new rule, just an interpretation of what is already written on the card!
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Jim Scheiderich
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Normally component prerequisites were on the left side of the component card itself.

The Shuttle actually has three of these, Re-entry, Atlas and the Shuttle itself. The latter being no different than any other rocket that you purchase and advancement for - buy it, buy rockets, fire them, draw outcomes. Hope for Minor-Minor-Success as that is the cheapest overall outcome.

In the Shuttle's case, the way it works is Re-entry AND Atlas advances are both needed before you can work on the Shuttle proper. The Atlas is as I described above about rockets and the easy Re-entry test is to boost up some Vostoks (lightweight and cheap) and test Re-entry with them. Needed if the Vostok, Apollo (and now the Shuttle) will face an atmosphere.

The Vostok and Apollo component cards have "Req. Re-entry" on their edge. The Shuttle only says "Req. Shuttle" on its component card [no different than say a Juno] edge but in the middle top say "Draw Re-entry". Rule lawyering here: The Shuttle advance may not even be taken until you have the Atlas and Re-entry advances in hand (not necessarily cleared but purchased. That is the same as the Soyuz/Proton relationship.

So what's with this "Draw Re-entry" on the Shuttle component card?

- Oversight by the designer? Or represents the on-going risk such as NASA so sadly encountered, leading to a purposeful way to keep one thinking twice about dropping a Shuttle onto a heavy atmosphere planet or moon?

So, go to Mars - which can be exceedingly VP rich - but maybe keep that Shuttle in orbit. Now you need a Apollo (or Vostok) to the surface, bring along a Habitat if there is a Radiation issue and now the Shuttle is still way useful but Malcolm-ese "Not shiny"!!!
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Will H.
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Why would you draw re-entry when there is no atmosphere?

Only thing I could think of was to represent the hazard of gliding it to a landing. But there is a landing advancement, so... I would guess you only face re-entry hazard when the location has it as a hazard.

I'm sure Joe will weigh in soon with the correct answer.
 
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Jim Scheiderich
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This was only for locations with atmospheres. I'm not sure why you would get the idea otherwise...
 
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Joe Fatula
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When a shuttle (or Vostok or Apollo) faces the reentry hazard (shown with a cloud symbol), you draw one outcome from your Reentry advancement to see what happens. If you don't have any outcomes left on Reentry, it's automatically a success.

In order to buy a shuttle component you need the Space Shuttle advancement.

In order to get the Space Shuttle advancement you need the Atlas and Reentry advancements.
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Jim Scheiderich
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buffalohat wrote:
When a shuttle (or Vostok or Apollo) faces the reentry hazard (shown with a cloud symbol), you draw one outcome from your Reentry advancement to see what happens. If you don't have any outcomes left on Reentry, it's automatically a success.

In order to buy a shuttle component you need the Space Shuttle advancement.

In order to get the Space Shuttle advancement you need the Atlas and Reentry advancements.


Being picky here: if you have cleared Re-entry (meaning NO outcome cards remain on it) AND you have Atlas advancement, then the Shuttle advancement is available and once it has cleared its 3 outcome cards it is good to go without further risk.

Confirm that, in the case described here, there are no further draws whenever you might use the Shuttle for Re-entry?

Thanks!
 
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Joe Fatula
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LHIM wrote:
buffalohat wrote:
When a shuttle (or Vostok or Apollo) faces the reentry hazard (shown with a cloud symbol), you draw one outcome from your Reentry advancement to see what happens. If you don't have any outcomes left on Reentry, it's automatically a success.

In order to buy a shuttle component you need the Space Shuttle advancement.

In order to get the Space Shuttle advancement you need the Atlas and Reentry advancements.


Being picky here: if you have cleared Re-entry (meaning NO outcome cards remain on it) AND you have Atlas advancement, then the Shuttle advancement is available and once it has cleared its 3 outcome cards it is good to go without further risk.

Confirm that, in the case described here, there are no further draws whenever you might use the Shuttle for Re-entry?

Thanks!


Not sure where you heard that rule. You can buy the Shuttle advancement once you have the Reentry and Atlas advancements, even if they still have outcome cards on them.
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