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Subject: Destroying a neutral temple and building a city rss

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Spieler Gott
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Can I build a city at the end of my turn if I have no military units in the area, because they got destroyed during destroying the temple?

E.g.: Area with a neutral temple and nothing else. I move in with 3 units. I destroy the temple. My units get destroyed. No units in the area anymore.
Can I still build a city?

I am asking, because I played it yesterday and two players have been convinced that it is played that way, but I couldn't find it in the rules.
Could it be that this was a rule from Antike 1 ?
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Mark Bigney
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In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control. Otherwise, no, you never could found a city where you don't have units.
 
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Spieler Gott
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Gyges wrote:
In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control.


I am not talking about an enemy city with a temple, I am talking about a lonely neutral temple.
 
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Andrea Bampi
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kackarschen wrote:
Can I build a city at the end of my turn if I have no military units in the area, because they got destroyed during destroying the temple?

E.g.: Area with a neutral temple and nothing else. I move in with 3 units. I destroy the temple. My units get destroyed. No units in the area anymore.
Can I still build a city?

I am asking, because I played it yesterday and two players have been convinced that it is played that way, but I couldn't find it in the rules.
Could it be that this was a rule from Antike 1 ?


No you can't.
You're probably confused by the rule that lets you "switch" the city token, even if you lose all your units. Lonely temples are simply destroyed - you need at least one unit to found a city.
 
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Spieler Gott
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That's what I read from the rules too, but two experienced Antike players sayed it differently. But maybe they had Antike 1 rules in their mind.
 
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Andrea Bampi
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kackarschen wrote:
That's what I read from the rules too, but two experienced Antike players sayed it differently. But maybe they had Antike 1 rules in their mind.


I never played Antike I, but I checked the rulebook and (quickly) the forum pages here, and I'm quite sure that there's no such thing as a NEUTRAL TEMPLE in Antike I.
No neutral temples in the initial setup and no way to found a neutral temple (of course) - and whenever you conquer a city, the temple is destroyed (as in Antike II). Temples are ALWAYS considered as "upgrades" to cities, de facto.
Maybe they refer to this rule "...For this new city, it is not necessary to have any military units left in the province." - but the rule belongs to the CONQUEST part of a military action and clearly refers to the "color switch" of an already placed city token, as in Antike II BTW. There is no CONQUEST when you attack and destroy a neutral temple, since there's no city.
Finally, even Antike I rulebook clearly states "FOUND CITIES - Only in provinces containing your military unit."
Your friends are wrong cool
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Spieler Gott
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What do you mean with "there is no conquest part"?

RickNash wrote:
There is no CONQUEST when you attack and destroy a neutral temple, since there's no city.


When you attack a neutral temple, your units get destroyed, right?
 
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Andrea Bampi
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kackarschen wrote:
What do you mean with "there is no conquest part"?

RickNash wrote:
There is no CONQUEST when you attack and destroy a neutral temple, since there's no city.


When you attack a neutral temple, your units get destroyed, right?


The CONQUEST is PHASE 2 of the MOVERE action. There is NO phase 2/NO CONQUEST phase if no city is actually in the region. That's all.
A MOVERE action played on a neutral temple stops at phase 1. It's a normal battle. Of course you get your units destroyed. But you dont conquer anything.
 
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Spieler Gott
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You mean I don't conquer a city and don't put a city for free. Yes I know, I have to pay if I want to place a city.
 
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Wink
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kackarschen wrote:
Gyges wrote:
In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control.
I am not talking about an enemy city with a temple, I am talking about a lonely neutral temple.

Maybe it would help if you explained how a neutral Temple appeared on the board. It seems as though most people posting here don't think this is possible and I agree with them.
 
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Andrea Bampi
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kackarschen wrote:
You mean I don't conquer a city and don't put a city for free. Yes I know, I have to pay if I want to place a city.


Yes, but you need to have at least a unit there, too. Your original question cool
 
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Si, si, mille grazie!
 
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Evan Stegman
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BadLT wrote:
kackarschen wrote:
Gyges wrote:
In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control.
I am not talking about an enemy city with a temple, I am talking about a lonely neutral temple.

Maybe it would help if you explained how a neutral Temple appeared on the board. It seems as though most people posting here don't think this is possible and I agree with them.


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Andrea Bampi
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BadLT wrote:
kackarschen wrote:
Gyges wrote:
In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control.
I am not talking about an enemy city with a temple, I am talking about a lonely neutral temple.

Maybe it would help if you explained how a neutral Temple appeared on the board. It seems as though most people posting here don't think this is possible and I agree with them.


I missed this comment...
It ISN'T possible. In Antike I... it's a new concept introduced in AII.
 
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Wink
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RickNash wrote:
BadLT wrote:
kackarschen wrote:
Gyges wrote:
In the process of destroying the temple, you automatically convert the city to your control.
I am not talking about an enemy city with a temple, I am talking about a lonely neutral temple.

Maybe it would help if you explained how a neutral Temple appeared on the board. It seems as though most people posting here don't think this is possible and I agree with them.


I missed this comment...
It ISN'T possible. In Antike I... it's a new concept introduced in AII.

I see neutral temples now in Antike II documentation, thank you. (It is in the setup supplement and not the main rulebook.)

The English rulebook does have an example on the back page which addresses this question. An attacker attacks a temple area with 3 units. The temple is destroyed and the city token is replaced with the attackers token. So the answer to your original question is YES.
 
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Andrea Bampi
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BadLT wrote:

The English rulebook does have an example on the back page which addresses this question. An attacker attacks a temple area with 3 units. The temple is destroyed and the city token is replaced with the attackers token. So the answer to your original question is YES.


No. Please don't add confusion with a wrong answer. Re-read the first 3 posts of the thread - he was asking about a NEUTRAL TEMPLE. No city tokens involved.
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Wink
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RickNash wrote:
BadLT wrote:

The English rulebook does have an example on the back page which addresses this question. An attacker attacks a temple area with 3 units. The temple is destroyed and the city token is replaced with the attackers token. So the answer to your original question is YES.


No. Please don't add confusion with a wrong answer. Re-read the first 3 posts of the thread - he was asking about a NEUTRAL TEMPLE. No city tokens involved.


I this case I say the answer is NO. You are performing the Conquest action to destroy the temple, however no city existed with the temple. Cities only come onto the board with a Found Cities action. (Except for the initial setup of course.) Cities can be converted to another player with a Conquest, but they cannot come into existence without a Found Cities action.


 
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