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Operation Veritable: ASL 1945 Rhine Historical Study» Forums » General

Subject: 1st edition vs 2nd edition rss

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Todd Pytel
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I believe there was only one true edition. The "second edition" was a small batch made from parts that MMP found in a corner of the warehouse. The map and counters were identical (just leftovers from the original). But they didn't have any more rulebook pages, so they supplied color photocopies instead. I'm not sure if the "second editions" were boxed either - MMP often does ziplock copies in those situations.
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Bruce Probst
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What Todd said. Not only is there no "second edition", there wasn't even a "second printing". Just sellable copies constructed from spare parts.

Unfortunately, both of the HSASL products that MMP released (Operation Watchtower and Operation Veritable) were pretty poor sellers so there are unlikely to be follow-ups. A pity, because I quite like the mix of geomorphic map scenarios and historical map scenarios/CG -- a kind of "best of both worlds" IMO. The CG component doesn't have to be "big" because the geomorphic map scenarios can flesh it out.
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Ruben Rigillo
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BruceP wrote:
I quite like the mix of geomorphic map scenarios and historical map scenarios/CG -- a kind of "best of both worlds" IMO. The CG component doesn't have to be "big" because the geomorphic map scenarios can flesh it out.


I'm with you in this. A humble suggestion from a newbie to a veteran: Have you tried HoB Operation Merkur? (I'm actually playing..,)
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Daniel Takai
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BruceP wrote:
Unfortunately, both of the HSASL products that MMP released (Operation Watchtower and Operation Veritable) were pretty poor sellers so there are unlikely to be follow-ups. A pity, because I quite like the mix of geomorphic map scenarios and historical map scenarios/CG -- a kind of "best of both worlds" IMO. The CG component doesn't have to be "big" because the geomorphic map scenarios can flesh it out.


I'm with you as well. I really enjoy the historical background with a map cut to the size and terrain of the actual conflict very much.

I especially liked Operation Veritable, playing the campaign game as the Germans, and subjecting my opponent to a merciless dicing. An 88 that blew every tank away on sight and kept on getting rate like there was no tomorrow. 50 CVP per fire phase were the new normal.
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Bruce Probst
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Qwirz wrote:
Have you tried HoB Operation Merkur? (I'm actually playing..,)


Um. I purchased every HoB product for the first several years of their existence (I even own a copy of their Tarawa release). They were the inventors of the "HSASL concept", with the afore-mentioned Tarawa the first to include a mix of both geoboard and HASL map scenarios. They continued this trend with their next few releases as well.

But ... (there's always a "but").

I became less-enamoured of HoB's products as time went on, and at a certain point I decided that I no longer wished to support the approach that they were taking. Therefore I stopped buying HoB products, and I do not own Merkur nor several other of their releases.

I'm not saying that I believed there to be quality issues, and if Merkur etc. are fun to play then that's great. I would never wish a fellow ASL player to be caught in the position of buying poor products.* All I'm saying is that what I want from ASL and what HoB were delivering no longer matched. (They were neither the first nor the last third-party producer that I made the same decision about.)

* Unless, of course, you wilfully and deliberately purchase products from Critical Hit. If you do, you deserve what you get -- it's hard to feel sorry for someone who wants to be fleeced.
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Ruben Rigillo
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Bruce, I understand your point and you played much more ASL than me. Operation Merkur is so fascinating to me: For the theatre, the map, the counters and overall it is the first Campaign I'm playing with scenarios a bit longer and with more specific rules.
I'm quite sure you will enjoy it if you'd give it a try!:)
Regarding third parties, reading opinions and supplements I made some sort of selection by myself: I support and like LFT, Lone Canuck, HoB and Bounding Fire. CH always sounded me bizarre with all those modules with tons of counters and scenarios covering quite anything. It looks like at CH they think they could make ASL a better game than it is.....and I like as it is!
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Bruce Probst
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Qwirz wrote:
It looks like at CH they think they could make ASL a better game than it is.....and I like as it is!


You misunderstand the CH business model. It has nothing to do with making ASL a "better game" or even a "different game". It has everything to do with how much cheap crap they can pump out the door and sell (at breathtakingly high prices!) to ignorant (sometimes willfully ignorant) customers who mistakenly think that anything with "ASL" printed on it must be good and fun.

Do you remember the old advertisements in the back of comic books that promised things that rationally you knew they could not deliver? E.G., for one measly buck you could get X-Ray glasses that would let you see through walls. What your $1 would actually get you was some cheap plastic rubbish that of course had no X-Ray powers at all. Well, replace "one measly buck" with "$100 and up" and "cheap plastic rubbish" with "scenarios not playtested, boards printed on cheap paper that don't line up with each other, rules that rarely make sense" and that's CH. Caveat emptor to the highest possible level.
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Ruben Rigillo
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Indeed you better expressed what was my impression!
 
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