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Subject: First player getting extra dice wins rss

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Norbert Chan
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Craig and Jean were really raving about this game they played in the morning, so in the afternoon, Don, Tim and I joined them for a 5 player game. Jean was Canada, I was France (discarding India and the VP card that gives 1 per government building while keeping the one that gives 1 VP per clean forests), Don was Western Germany, Craig was Japan and Tim was China.

Craig and Jean were discussing the benefits of going first, and getting the extra die as the only thing to do. Jean went first, so he placed a worker in the Power plant area, getting a blue dice. I built a university (earn $2 or spend $4 to get an extra worker). If the game absolutely depends on you getting extra dice , then it wouldn’t be an interesting game. I could have put a worker and an energy into the Power plant area, but I didn’t have the right resources. My plan was to get up to 6 workers. Don took oil, Craig took Education to get an extra worker, while Tim went to the Power Plant to get an extra blue dice.

I kept going after green buildings to get my science points and money through a brown building. Thus it was easy for me to go up on the United Nations chart. Since Jean had the most dice, he was getting the most energy. Just for comparison, on the first generate, Jean got 8 energy, and I got 3 energy. So with the excess energy, whenever he generated, he was able to buy the VP tiles requiring 2 energy fairly easily. On the other hand, I had more workers and was generating less.

Also, whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat, while I had no ability to do that, short of using workers to do that. There were a couple of times I felt like I wasted an action by spending a worker to get goods rather than do a clean up. That might have made a difference in the game.

I thought Jean was going to easily win.

Scores:
Jean 96 (23 from buildings, 6 dice, 8 UN track, 11 achievements, 13 from environment),
Norbert 94 (16 buidlings, 4 dice, 20 UN track, 9 achievements, 10 from environment),
Don 89 (27 buildings, 6 dice, 12 UN track, 7 achievements),
Tim 81 (7 building, 6 dice, 4 UN track),
Craig 76 (15 building 2 dice, 15 UN track)


Jean is blue, I am yellow, Don is black, Tim is red and Craig is green. Jean's buildings, achievements and environment mat are there as well.

One thing we didn’t like was the downtime when a player started running their buildings. We didn’ t really know if he was getting the right resources and there is downtime as that happens. It’s not easy with the card symbols to look over the table and figure out your opponent’s buildings. There are a lot of things going on in the game, and I don’t mind it, but with so many new games being released, it would be hard for this to be played again. There are a lot of mechanisms, some of which are interesting, but it felt like there were a lot of extra mechanisms that really didn’t add to the game.

I was surprised I was close. I think the UN track saved me, but I could have spent some actions cleaning up rather than getting resources.
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Jason Preder
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Norbert Chan wrote:
Craig and Jean were really raving about this game they played in the morning, so in the afternoon, Don, Tim and I joined them for a 5 player game. Jean was Canada, I was France (discarding India and the VP card that gives 1 per government building while keeping the one that gives 1 VP per clean forests), Don was Western Germany, Craig was Japan and Tim was China.

Craig and Jean were discussing the benefits of going first, and getting the extra die as the only thing to do. Jean went first, so he placed a worker in the Power plant area, getting a blue dice. I built a university (earn $2 or spend $4 to get an extra worker). If the game absolutely depends on you getting extra dice , then it wouldn’t be an interesting game. I could have put a worker and an energy into the Power plant area, but I didn’t have the right resources. My plan was to get up to 6 workers. Don took oil, Craig took Education to get an extra worker, while Tim went to the Power Plant to get an extra blue dice.

I kept going after green buildings to get my science points and money through a brown building. Thus it was easy for me to go up on the United Nations chart. Since Jean had the most dice, he was getting the most energy. Just for comparison, on the first generate, Jean got 8 energy, and I got 3 energy. So with the excess energy, whenever he generated, he was able to buy the VP tiles requiring 2 energy fairly easily. On the other hand, I had more workers and was generating less.

Also, whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat, while I had no ability to do that, short of using workers to do that. There were a couple of times I felt like I wasted an action by spending a worker to get goods rather than do a clean up. That might have made a difference in the game.

I thought Jean was going to easily win.

Scores:
Jean 96 (23 from buildings, 6 dice, 8 UN track, 11 achievements, 13 from environment),
Norbert 94 (16 buidlings, 4 dice, 20 UN track, 9 achievements, 10 from environment),
Don 89 (27 buildings, 6 dice, 12 UN track, 7 achievements),
Tim 81 (7 building, 6 dice, 4 UN track),
Craig 76 (15 building 2 dice, 15 UN track)


Jean is blue, I am yellow, Don is black, Tim is red and Craig is green. Jean's buildings, achievements and environment mat are there as well.

One thing we didn’t like was the downtime when a player started running their buildings. We didn’ t really know if he was getting the right resources and there is downtime as that happens. It’s not easy with the card symbols to look over the table and figure out your opponent’s buildings. There are a lot of things going on in the game, and I don’t mind it, but with so many new games being released, it would be hard for this to be played again. There are a lot of mechanisms, some of which are interesting, but it felt like there were a lot of extra mechanisms that really didn’t add to the game.

I was surprised I was close. I think the UN track saved me, but I could have spent some actions cleaning up rather than getting resources.


This is the first time I've really heard this particular complaint...that complaint being that you essentially don't "trust" your fellow players to properly gain/allocate resources. Usually, you can almost let someone finish up their turn as you start yours, and incur very minimal downtime, especially if your group isn't prone to AP.
I think MP:EE does an excellent job of managing 5 players and has just the right complexity to keep bringing me back for more. The expansion in the works may even add more complexity that you may not appreciate, but I'm certain my group will welcome it with open arms.
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Heath Washburn
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I'm confused by your scoring recap. Why do some players have zero points listed for achievements and environment? Everyone should start the game with one achievement tile. Based on the photo, Jean got 19 points for their environment.

Also, what do you mean by "whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat?" You can't clean up on a generate turn.

Finally, if you don't buy power plant dice early, be sure to burn some oil for energy dice!
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Jason Preder
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heathbarATL wrote:
I'm confused by your scoring recap. Why do some players have zero points listed for achievements and environment? Everyone should start the game with one achievement tile. Based on the photo, Jean got 19 points for their environment.

Also, what do you mean by "whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat?" You can't clean up on a generate turn.

Finally, if you don't buy power plant dice early, be sure to burn some oil for energy dice!


I guess it would be possible to not score any points off of both starting achievements, but that does seem highly unlikely, especially for multiple players to play that ineffectively.
Since they obviously missed some scoring, I wonder what else they may have done incorrectly.
As I mentioned above, it seems that they had a trust issue with other players managing their building, therefore, creating significant downtime. I've never had this problem after playing with many people, but I guess if your group requires a significant amount of hand holding, this would be an issue, otherwise, in most cases you could just wait for them to take their main action and the next player could go as they resolve their "Home" actions, and they usually don't have much bearing on the other players.
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Norbert Chan
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heathbarATL wrote:
I'm confused by your scoring recap. Why do some players have zero points listed for achievements and environment? Everyone should start the game with one achievement tile. Based on the photo, Jean got 19 points for their environment.

Also, what do you mean by "whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat?" You can't clean up on a generate turn.

Finally, if you don't buy power plant dice early, be sure to burn some oil for energy dice!


I didn't catch all the scores for each player, especially the achievements and environment at the end. My apologies for that.

I was taught that the blue dice or green dice can eliminate a pollution (not sure if that meant just for generation, and not off your mat). So we could have been playing wrong. Thanks for pointting that out.

Good advice on the oil. I did that to supplement my energy later on in the game.
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Norbert Chan
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MilkFromACow wrote:
heathbarATL wrote:
I'm confused by your scoring recap. Why do some players have zero points listed for achievements and environment? Everyone should start the game with one achievement tile. Based on the photo, Jean got 19 points for their environment.

Also, what do you mean by "whenever Jean generated, he was able to clean up pollution on his mat?" You can't clean up on a generate turn.

Finally, if you don't buy power plant dice early, be sure to burn some oil for energy dice!


I guess it would be possible to not score any points off of both starting achievements, but that does seem highly unlikely, especially for multiple players to play that ineffectively.
Since they obviously missed some scoring, I wonder what else they may have done incorrectly.
As I mentioned above, it seems that they had a trust issue with other players managing their building, therefore, creating significant downtime. I've never had this problem after playing with many people, but I guess if your group requires a significant amount of hand holding, this would be an issue, otherwise, in most cases you could just wait for them to take their main action and the next player could go as they resolve their "Home" actions, and they usually don't have much bearing on the other players.


I didn't mean to paint the other players in a negative light. We all make honest mistakes, especially with new games, so none of us could verify exactly what everyone else was doing. That's all I meant to say.

One rule we knew we did get wrong was when you generate, even if you don't get a pollution, you still take one off the board. So the game would have run a little quicker.
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Michael Denman
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Norbert Chan wrote:
One rule we knew we did get wrong was when you generate, even if you don't get a pollution, you still take one off the board. So the game would have run a little quicker.


Norbert Chan wrote:
I was taught that the blue dice or green dice can eliminate a pollution (not sure if that meant just for generation, and not off your mat). So we could have been playing wrong. Thanks for pointting that out.


When you generate, you remove one pollution from the pile. Then you look at the dice you just rolled and find he one with the highest number. If it shows any pollution, then you place that piece you just picked up on to your board. Otherwise, you remove it from the game. THAT is how the blue and green dice help. IF they are the highest number, they'll allow you to not have to place that piece you just picked up. They do nothing to erase the damage you've already done to yourself.
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David Luchetti
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Sounds like there were a few small, but significant, rules mistakes. I’d highly recommend playing the game again - it’s very good! Maybe try a 3 or 4 player game, those will be a bit shorter than 5 players
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