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Twilight Imperium: Fourth Edition» Forums » Variants

Subject: TI4 Objective Cards Fix and more rss

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Alexandre Guilbeault
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Based on the comments below, I made some edits in red.

Well, one of the biggest concerns I have witnessed on these forums is that TI4 has fallen short in its objective card deck.

You wish to have more confrontation? There is a solution for that. Use the TI3 Shards of the Throne "Fall of the Empire" approach (i.e. a single objective per player). I tweaked it a bit.

Players first determine the length of the game (i.e. number of rounds). Recommendation is 6 to 8 rounds.

Each player randomly selects a single Objective Card and keeps it secret. The player must control his Home System (HS) to achieve the objective unless it is stated otherwise on the objective card. The following are suggestions for objective cards (You can make your own). I also recommend having copies of some, to make a larger deck and more interesting game.

Disruption: You do not need to control your HS to achieve this objective. You win the game if nobody has achieved their objective by the end of the last round.
Emperor (x2): You win the game if you control Mecatol Rex at the end of the last round.
Power Hungry (x2): You win the game if you control the Mecatol Rex system for three complete consecutive rounds. (Immediate Victory)
Peacekeeper: You win the game if each HS is controlled either by you or its starting race at the end of the last round. (Immediate Victory)
Traitor (x2): You win the game if you control an opponent's HS. Note that any treaty card of yours this opponent possesses at the moment of victory is nullified. (Immediate Victory)
Under Siege (x2): You win the game if you control every system adjacent to an opponent's HS. Note that any treaty card of yours this opponent possesses at the moment of victory is nullified. (Immediate Victory)

For 4 players or more, add:

Influential (x2): You do not need to control your HS to achieve this objective. You win the game if planets you control (outside your HS) have a combined total of 20 influence (Immediate Victory)
Wealthy (x2): You do not need to control your HS to achieve this objective. You win the game if planets you control (outside your HS) have a combined total of 20 Resources (Immediate Victory)


Treaty Cards add a lot of intrigue to this variant. You should create your own based on color instead of faction. For example: "If the blue player achieves his/her objective, you also win the game". For rules on Treaty Cards, see the Shards of the Throne rule book at: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/3e/e0....

What to do with cards that speak of victory points and secret objectives? Make a house rule like the following one:

1 victory point = 6 trade goods
1 secret objective card = 3 trade goods

To make it more interesting, create negative trade good tokens. So, in cases where a player would lose trade goods, that player could potentially go into the negatives.




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Scott Lewis
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Interesting concept, and could be interesting to try. Some of these will obviously make the game much longer, as you have to play the full 10 rounds to get to them.

Are these secret, like they are in Shards? If so, I think Power Hungry may be a bit too strong, as getting entrenched on Mecatol for a couple rounds isn't always very hard, especially early in the game.

I'll give this some thought to see if there are any other comments I have.
 
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Alex Almond
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Traitor seems very easy.

& Don't traitor and Peacekeeper rule out the Disruption objective?
 
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Scott Lewis
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Darkmancer wrote:
Traitor seems very easy.

Depends on who gets it. Taking another player's Home System isn't always easy (as it requires taking the planet AND the space). That said, it's probably easier than some of the others.

Quote:
Don't traitor and Peacekeeper rule out the Disruption objective?

I thought that at first, but realized that it doesn't quite make it mutually exclusive. I think the thought is everyone is getting ONE of these objectives secretly, similar to the Fall of the Empire scenario from Shards. So if a player OTHER than the person who has the Traitor objective takes another player's HS, then Peacekeeper is out, but Traitor hasn't been fulfilled yet.

That said, I think Disruptor would be the hardest one to achieve (although the way they could thwart Peacekeeper is by taking another HS themeselves). In Shards, the similar objective was the Lazax one, and everyone knew they had it, but having it secret means that nobody knows who may have it.


As I'm thinking about this, I may recommend that the game go less than 10 rounds - that's a LOOONG time, and even the Shards one only went 8 rounds if I recall, and a typical "regular" game of TI4 is probably only going to take about 6 rounds.
 
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Steve Williams
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Disruptor needs to be Round 9 (or you need additional rules), otherwise it is jmpossible as TI4 doesn't go to round 10.
 
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Scott Lewis
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IncrediSteve wrote:
Disruptor needs to be Round 9 (or you need additional rules), otherwise it is jmpossible as TI4 doesn't go to round 10.

It could with these rules, as it looks like you don't use the regular objectives at all - only these special ones.
 
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Alexandre Guilbeault
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Quote:
Are these secret, like they are in Shards?


That’s the idea.

Quote:
If so, I think Power Hungry may be a bit too strong, as getting entrenched on Mecatol for a couple rounds isn't always very hard, especially early in the game.


All of what I have written is open to change. Power Hungry could be switched to "more than 2 rounds" or "more than 3".

Quote:
As I'm thinking about this, I may recommend that the game go less than 10 rounds - that's a LOOONG time, and even the Shards one only went 8 rounds if I recall, and a typical "regular" game of TI4 is probably only going to take about 6 rounds.


Quote:
Disruptor needs to be Round 9 (or you need additional rules), otherwise it is jmpossible as TI4 doesn't go to round 10.


That's interesting. I had it at 6 rounds at first but feared it wouldn't be sufficiently "Epic". Maybe 6 rounds wasn’t too short after all. Or maybe these objectives should be left open (i.e. “end of game”); thus, letting players decide the length of the game themselves at the very beginning.
 
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Alexandre Guilbeault
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Quote:
That said, I think Disruptor would be the hardest one to achieve


Note that using Treaty Cards, if a player is smart, he/she will get an ally to help achieve this objective. In a sense, Treaty Cards make tougher objectives more achievable.
 
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I think two important things about using this idea, though, that I think were crucial to making it work well in Shards:

1) All discussions must be "at the table" - no back room secrets. I think this was vital to help ensure that a player doesn't outright just share his objective with an ally. He can hint at it, but only openly and not secretly. I think this makes it so that the whole "ally" thing really works, as you can never really be sure if they are truly an ally, or if they are even working toward the goal you think they might be.

2) I like that the treaty cards had "messages" on them, even if kind of generic. While the messages were largely arbitrary and often ignored in practice, clever players could use them to their advantage as their one "allowed" way to share secret information.


As for game length, I would recommend starting with 8 rounds as a baseline, just like in Shards. The only other thing I was thinking about that could possibly skew the way it works is the lack of the central Lazax - having them in the middle and thus within striking range of all the races (and being in striking range back) made things quite interesting. While I don't think the lack of a "middle" race would ruin it, it could make it harder to stop some of the objectives because generally only the two players on the left/right would realistically be able to thwart some of them (and if the player is gunning for one player to conquer a homeworld, the only real help the player may have is the one on the target player's other side, whereas in Fall of the Empire the Lazax could possibly step in from the middle and support them, too).
 
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Alexandre Guilbeault
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Quote:
1) All discussions must be "at the table" - no back room secrets. I think this was vital to help ensure that a player doesn't outright just share his objective with an ally. He can hint at it, but only openly and not secretly. I think this makes it so that the whole "ally" thing really works, as you can never really be sure if they are truly an ally, or if they are even working toward the goal you think they might be.


I agree.

Quote:
2) I like that the treaty cards had "messages" on them, even if kind of generic. While the messages were largely arbitrary and often ignored in practice, clever players could use them to their advantage as their one "allowed" way to share secret information.


Couldn't agree more. I have already created my own treaty cards and made sure to include those messages.

Quote:
The only other thing I was thinking about that could possibly skew the way it works is the lack of the central Lazax - having them in the middle and thus within striking range of all the races (and being in striking range back) made things quite interesting. While I don't think the lack of a "middle" race would ruin it, it could make it harder to stop some of the objectives because generally only the two players on the left/right would realistically be able to thwart some of them (and if the player is gunning for one player to conquer a homeworld, the only real help the player may have is the one on the target player's other side, whereas in Fall of the Empire the Lazax could possibly step in from the middle and support them, too).


Strategically placed wormholes in a preset map could fix that.


 
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