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Subject: WWII Wargame rss

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Andrew Park
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I am looking into developing a WWII wargame, but I will need help from the community! I want to have a lot of logistics and generally want to create a monster wargame, based on various places of WW2. I have very big plans, such as the fact that I want to spread it into a series. I will not be retailing it online like Amazon or EBay, but I may sell it to some people on the Forums and I'll give free copies to my friends. The first game I will develop is the German invasion of Poland in 1939. There is only one board game I know of that covers it, and generally the reviews aren't so positive. I want to make it more detailed and certainly with a larger scope, with logistics(paperwork) and teams. Below, I will list the parts I so far plan on doing.

Poland 1939:
One game-turn = 1 day in the Campaign
3 sides(or teams):
NAZI GERMANY, POLAND and THE SOVIET UNION

Begins on 1 September 1939

Various Factors:
Morale
Food
Ammunition
Water
Oil(Tanks)
Fuel(Air)
Bombs(Air)
Leadership
Experience
Duration of Campaign(lowers Morale)

I have a lot thought out so far, but I feel quite a bit is missing.

I can lay out what I think right now:

Units(counters) start out with a set amount of morale, food, ammunition, water, leadership and experience.

Ex.
TURN 1
111st Grognard Regiment
Status: Un-Broken
Morale : 70
Food: 100
Ammunition: 55
Water: 100
Leadership: 80
Experience: 20

TURN 2
111st Grognard Regiment
Status: Broken
Morale: 65
Food: 90
Ammunition: 32
Water: 85
Leadership: 75
Experience: 30

The morale would affect the leadership, and if the morale is low that may break the unit, causing them to retreat.

Units can choose the ammunition they expend: which will affect how much ammunition they have left.

The morale also determines their movement amount, measured in hexes. As morale, leadership, food, and water deteriorates, the movement amount will also decrease.

{IN PROGRESS}
~10% Done

 
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Thom0909
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New York
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How would the players track all that? A computer game could do so, but for a board game, it is tricky (if not highly tedious).
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Bernie Roessler
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Visalia
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2 things.

First you may also try posting in the Wargames Forum.

Second, are you familiar with the old game Campaign for North Africa and its reputation? I believe in 40 years only one campaign game of it was ever completed.
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Michael Dillenbeck
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Deerfield
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True, most wargames will abstract a lot of what you are talking about into step losses and abstracted supply lines, but there are a lot of wargames that cover this conflict. What will you add that World in Flames and the myriad of wargames don't already cover? How will it play at the table? There is a lot more than one game that covers this conflict in detail, and most adapt mechanisms to keep it playable in a weekend or some even play in an evening due to the abstractions.

I don't mean to discourage you, but it does sound like you aren't familiar with the entire wargaming/historical conflict simulation market - and its sort of trying to design a "revolutionary" roleplaying game when you are only aware of D&D.
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Brian Herr
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Palos Hills
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Speaking as someone who truly enjoys a good monster wargame from time to time, I must admit I would find a game that actually tracks food, water, and ammo all separately - on a regimental level in your example - waaaay too fiddly. Even for a (relatively) "small" battle such as Poland, you are talking about literally hundreds of counters, each with all of those attributes. And there will need to be others: strength, movement, unit type. How are you going to track this stuff in a boardgame environment? I really hate to be a wet blanket, but you could probably plan - and execute - the real Fall Weiß in the time it will take to play this. You won't need teams, you'll need a staff.
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Juan Valdez
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Beorndog wrote:
2 things.

First you may also try posting in the Wargames Forum.

Second, are you familiar with the old game Campaign for North Africa and its reputation? I believe in 40 years only one campaign game of it was ever completed.


Sounds like fun.

I agree, you should definitely purchase yourself a copy of CNA and play a turn or two for inspiration. It will give a good feel for what works and what needs improving.

You might also want to play through a campaign or two of any of the GOSS games to a different feel for similar scale with reduced supply complexity.

Posting in the wargames forum is also very good advice. I'm pretty sure there is more than 1 game on the topic, although the only one coming to mind is Brian Train's treatment. Scratch that: Carl Paradis has one about to be published as well.
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Greg Love
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Somebody once said:
"A game is not complete until you cannot remove any more features, not ADD any more features" (or something like that).

I guess the key message here is - sometimes, less is more, and I think this principle of minimalism in design is generally a good one.

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Laura Creighton
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Is this going to be a wargame/phone game hybrid? Just saying that the people I know who are interested in games which have this amount of 'stuff to manage' also want computer help in managing it. So they are playing computer games, not boardgames ....
 
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Quentin N.
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I must agree of what was said above. Plus the will to create such a complex monster requires an amount of historical reseaches that very few people can prove themselves capable of.
And another thing: Monster wargames are a thing of the past. Computers have a huge advantage nowadays to cope with complexity-related problems.
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Pelle Nilsson
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Mimolette wrote:

And another thing: Monster wargames are a thing of the past.


I disagree. I do not think I have been to a local game convention (or seen photos posted from one of those I did not go to) that did not include one or a few groups of people playing some really massive monster, and often some recently published monster too. I even joined in playing a few turns once or twice.

Quote:
Computers have a huge advantage nowadays to cope with complexity-related problems.


They do, but I still have not seen a complex computer wargame I like. Horribly obsolete gui is one thing, but then that feeling of having just a thin skin on top of a spreadsheet, with just lots of way too detailed numbers everywhere. Fine I have 43 % supply in one hex, 38 % supply in the adjacent hex (why?!) and my unit has 44 % fatigue. But what does that really mean, and how can I use that to plan my strategy for the next several turns? What if I move my unit at full speed towards Moscow for three turns, how far will I get and how much supply and fatigue will there be left? It is always way too daunting to try to plan anything. Where is my staff that can abstract things for me and just tell me the value of things in a few simple single-digit numbers... like in a boardgame?
 
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Andrew Park
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I have played CNA and I find it exciting... I haven't finished it of course but I have gotten through one of the short scenarios.
 
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Andrew Park
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I don't mean to sell it whatsoever honestly, and can you please show me other board games that cover this conflict? Thanks in advance.
 
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Andrew Park
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I have completed a small scenario of CNA(Graziani's Offensive) and I have played Wacht Am Rhein, the full campaign using all 6 maps. Sadly I sold both at astronomic prices whistle
 
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J.B. Vandervecken
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check out: Drang Nach Osten, then look at bottom links for wargames taking that take 100+ hours to play; the highest % of games in that category are WW II simulations. Know what is out there before you try to re-invent the wheel. But don't be discouraged, designing a game from the ground up is a process that every serious gamer should try. Even if it doesn't come to fruition, the mental processes used are stimulating and can be quite cathartic. Good luck.
 
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Michael Debije
Netherlands
Eindhoven
The Netherlands
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Mimolette wrote:
I must agree of what was said above. Plus the will to create such a complex monster requires an amount of historical reseaches that very few people can prove themselves capable of.
And another thing: Monster wargames are a thing of the past. Computers have a huge advantage nowadays to cope with complexity-related problems.


Counterexample: check out Battle for Sicily, coming from GMT. 4 maps, 5 countersheets, 9 sheets with charts and overlays.

Monster games are alive and well, thank you.
 
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