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The U.S. Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Supply Rules, Help rss

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M R
Australia
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Hello, I am in the middle of my first game and have come across a game breaking problem in my understanding of the rules, I have re-read them multiple times but I just can't understand. So in the trans-Mississippi theater, how is the confederate player meant to do anything while retaining full supply. In the 1861 scenario, Price is stationed at Springfield which isn't even in supply, because the rules state that for it to be in supply it must be able to trace supply across a NAVIGABLE river(which there is only a minor river) or be within LOC of a CSA 2 point resource hex or state capital, it is only within LOC of a 1 resource hex which is then not in LOC of anything else in CSA territory. Even if I am wrong and Springfield is in supply (meaning Price is in supply) if Price moves more than one hex away from Springfield he will be in limited supply, so how is he meant to do anything in that theater... Would really appreciate clarification, thanks!
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Mark McG
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Penshurst
NSW
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read the Limited Supply rules (13.1.3) and the Line of Communication rules (13.5). Remember State capitals count as a supply source. Little Rock is both kinds.

So Price is will never be in full supply in Springfield, Missouri, but will be in Limited Supply via Fayetteville to Little Rock by LOC. Generally that is enough.
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M R
Australia
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Ah ok Thank you, I was under the impression that being in limited supply had drawbacks, such as the foraging marker, but it seems to not have any effect.
 
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Gerardo Bolanos
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The drawback of being in limited supply is that in the event of a tie in battle, the units become Demoralized (if they were in full supply, they wouldn't).
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Dave Turansky
United States
Shreveport
Louisiana
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Additionally, a force requires full supply in order to build a fort. So, no fort may be built in Springfield, MO or in Fayetteville, AR. There are consequences to being in limited supply, but there is still supply, as long as the force can trace a LOC.
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Randy C
United States
Chicago
Illinois
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Robert L Howard (Medal of Honor recipient)
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And tied battles occur more than you might think.
 
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If Price's force is Demoralised in Missouri he can only remove the marker with a Rally action and he can't both Rally AND Move in the same Action Phase. To Entrench in Missouri he must Move and spend 2 MP rather than use an Action Point as the latter requires him to be in a "friendly-controlled state" (which Missouri is not) so he effectively can't Rally AND Entrench in the same Action Phase. If Demoralised when already Demoralised Price will also lose an additional SP. The combination of these effects shows, I hope, that being in Limited Supply in an enemy-controlled state has severe disadvantages that should not be underestimated. Whilst you are winning battles you are fine (living off the land and stealing enemy ammunition and supplies) but as soon as you draw or lose a battle and become Demoralized you will be in trouble.
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M R
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Thanks everyone for the replies, to quickly clarify, in an enemy state an army cannot use an activation to place an entrenchment, but can spend 2 MPs instead, does this mean the army MUST move with the rest of its movement before constructing the entrenchment?
 
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David desJardins
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Burlingame
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NocturnalHannibal wrote:
Thanks everyone for the replies, to quickly clarify, in an enemy state an army cannot use an activation to place an entrenchment, but can spend 2 MPs instead, does this mean the army MUST move with the rest of its movement before constructing the entrenchment?


No, you can entrench and then move out of the entrenchment. But if it's not occupied after your action phase, it will just be removed, so this isn't often that useful.

Are you reading the rules? This couldn't be clearer under 10.1.2:

During movement an activated force with 2 or more SPs may spend 2 MPs to build an Entrenchment. The 2 MPs may be spent at any point in the force’s movement.
 
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There is no requirement to spend your entire MP allowance so a unit can be activated to MOVE with 1 Action Point and simply remain in place and Entrench for 2 of its available MP. The point about it being a MOVE action is that you cannot spend another Action Point to RALLY in the same phase, as they are mutually exclusive actions. In friendly territory you could spend 1 AP to RALLY and another to ENTRENCH. I just thought I'd point this out to show how becoming Demoralised in an enemy-controlled state might leave your unit Rallied but not Entrenched, or vice versa, which might not be the case if in friendly territory if you were prepared to spend 2 Action Points to do both.
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M R
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ah ok, I was confused about this because I was under the impression from rule 5.1.2 that states 'One Action per Phase: An SP or General may be activated only once per Action Phase'. So i assumed you EITHER move or rally, or entrench but not move and rally etc. So I take it this rule just means you can only activate one general or SPs for movement per action phase, but can perform other actions if you have the points to spend.
 
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NocturnalHannibal wrote:
ah ok, I was confused about this because I was under the impression from rule 5.1.2 that states 'One Action per Phase: An SP or General may be activated only once per Action Phase'. So i assumed you EITHER move or rally, or entrench but not move and rally etc.


I confess you had me worried there for a moment but the term "activation" seems to be used throughout the rules only for stacks that are "moving" (such as by a Move or Naval Transport action). Besides, the Entrenchment rules (10.1.2) are very unambiguous...

"1 Action Point: This method may only be used in spaces in friendly-controlled states which contain an SP (including 0 SP Militia). Construction can occur even if the SPs (or Militia) in the space have been activated already in the current Action Phase."

NocturnalHannibal wrote:
So I take it this rule just means you can only activate one general or SPs for movement per action phase, but can perform other actions if you have the points to spend.


Not quite. You still cannot Move AND Rally. These are mutually exclusive actions as per rule 12.5.2...

"Units may either Rally or move in the same Action Phase — they cannot do both."

So, to sum up, if Price is in Missouri (Union-controlled) he cannot Rally and then Move (mutually exclusive actions) or Rally and then Entrench (with an Action Point). If he was over the border in Arkansas he could still not Rally and then Move (mutually exclusive actions) but he COULD Rally and then Entrench (with an Action Point) as he is in friendly territory.
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M R
Australia
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Ah ok right, thanks for your help. This is definitely the most complex game I've ever played, my next being paths of glory which I didn't have nearly as many questions for. Great game though, definitely been enjoying it.
 
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Jim Dauphinais
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Chesterfield
Missouri
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The subtlety that often seems to be missed is that an action to place entrenchments in a friendly state (i.e., an Entrench Action) does not involve the activation of any SPs. It only requires that an SP be present in the hex/space.

The other subtlety is that the placement of entrenchments through movement is not an Entrench Action. It is part of a Move Action just like moving into a new hex except that at least 2 SPs have to be moving together in order to place them. The sentence at the end of the Entrench Action discussion in 4.3 is only meant to be an aside to indicate there is another way to place entrenchments besides taking an Entrench Action.
 
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