Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
25 Posts

War of the Ring (Second Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Strategy tips for FP Military Victory from turn 1 ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joffrey N.
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello guys,

I don't have a lot of games played (approximately 8 with FP, 2 with SP). I only play with the same friend so we both played the same number of games.

So far, we only had FP (ring destroyed) victories, most of them hung by a thread but it was each time very enjoyable. Although several times Shadow Player forgot to use some minions abilities so Im pretty sure he could claimed victory on several games !

Anyway, lately, I came upon this thread and it makes me really eager to try a FPMV from turn 1.
I think I have my chances as we are not experienced players so my friend could be pretty surprised of the military approach and couldn't know initially how to react properly

Ive read several articles about FP military but I struggle to find more details about which might be the best Shadow points to claim and with which FP armies. The only things that I found several times is to separate all companions from turn 1 and get them accross the board to activate each Nations.

Could you guys share any tips and/or experiences please ?

Thanks for your help



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James C
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've never tried that. But if I did, I'd identify 4 VPs worth of SP territories (that's the number needed for victory, right?). They'd be lightly defended and far from other reinforcements (such as the northern territories). I'd then focus like a laser on just those - activating only the necessary / nearby FP nations, and throwing all my companions into battle as leaders. It would be an all-or-nothing desperate strategy.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Long
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Fly Eagles Fly!
badge
The Cthulhu player, not the Football player.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Draw "Fear, Fire, Foes!" on your first turn.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FPMV is not really a goal that is reasonable to set. You will lose every time to a competent Shadow Player.

FPMV is only possible if the Shadow plays poorly, or has really awful luck. Time is on the Shadows side if you are not moving the Ring and focusing on war. Plus, you will spend a ton of time and dice just getting your guys to war. As the Shadow, I would love to see this strategy against me. You simply cannot compete with the number of dice and units the Shadow has. Period.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joffrey N.
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Professor X wrote:
I've never tried that. But if I did, I'd identify 4 VPs worth of SP territories (that's the number needed for victory, right?). They'd be lightly defended and far from other reinforcements (such as the northern territories). I'd then focus like a laser on just those - activating only the necessary / nearby FP nations, and throwing all my companions into battle as leaders. It would be an all-or-nothing desperate strategy.

I was also thinking myself going North with North men. It has 3 VPs. But I would need a lot of dice to bring them to war and move them up there ! And I would still need another VP to win, maybe run for Moria...?

radynski wrote:
Draw "Fear, Fire, Foes!" on your first turn.

This would indeed help a lot to ensure a quick attack in the North. But the odds to draw it 1st turn are poor.

Xookliba wrote:
FPMV is not really a goal that is reasonable to set. You will lose every time to a competent Shadow Player.

FPMV is only possible if the Shadow plays poorly, or has really awful luck. Time is on the Shadows side if you are not moving the Ring and focusing on war. Plus, you will spend a ton of time and dice just getting your guys to war. As the Shadow, I would love to see this strategy against me. You simply cannot compete with the number of dice and units the Shadow has. Period.

I know it is not a viable strategy against a competent shadow player.
But I was still willing to try to see how it goes and if it is really that far from winning. Like I said we are not experienced in the game so it may turn in FP favour. And even if I loose, I don't care, I would still have a great time with this awesome game

I just don't know where would be best to strike and with which army. I was originally thinking North as it is not heavily loaded from the beginning, but there is not enough VP(only 3) back there to win...

Any feedback from FP Military Victory games (or close to victory) is welcome

Thanks
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Hope
United States
Woodside
California
flag msg tools
badge
Likes: Mountains, Tundra Turn-offs: Serpents, Marsh
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hold on to Scouts and the card that lets you move an army two spaces, and try to preserve armies in the field in Rohan and/or Gondor. You will often have a chance to run for an abandoned Dol Guldur or a weakly defended Umbar or even one of the Mordor strongholds. But I agree generally that if you make it clear by your (likely unusual) actions from turn 1 that you are trying to win a Military Victory, you should find it impossible if your opponent is alert. So I'd suggest that if you want to win a MV just play your normal game but hold onto those resources that give you the best maneuver options for the mid-late game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Miquel
Spain
Madrid
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You could move the Elves to war, recruit in Lorien and Rivendel and attack Mount Gundabad and Moria, but those are a lot of dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
victor pla
Spain
la senia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here http://labsk.net/index.php?topic=116272.0 is an interesting article about this subject. Unfortunately it's written in spanish.

I agree with some of the comments. Chasing FPMV from turn 1 is a risky bet and it's nearly impossible to win an experienced shadow player.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Yaure
United States
Plymouth Meeting
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I understand you are not looking for a winning strategy, just a plausible strategy. Consider moving Gondor to war, including separating Strider, Boromir and a hobbit and getting them to Minas Tirith. Build up Minas Tirith. If Shadow moves towards Minas Tirith, wait for Shadow to attack, meet them in the field, then retreat away from Minas Tirith. Then, move on Mordor, which is likely to be lightly defended. IF Shadow does not move on Minas Tirith, once you have 8-10 units, move out towards Minas Morgul or Morannon if either is empty or almost empty. You may also face an empty Barad Dur.

An option to start this is to separate all of the companioins to Noria on first character die, then send them off to various Free Peoples nations on second character die.
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Dexter
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
It's not impossible. You just have to go all out. A while ago there was a bet between two very good players on the online ladder. The bet was that the FP player could not win with FPMV if the shadow player knew it was coming. The FP player did win.

Here are a few tips:

1. If it all possible get Aragorn on turn one.

2. Get Gandalf the White as soon as possible. You will need 6 dice. But consider leaving him in the fellowship at the beginning. That will allow you to cycle the strategy cards quickly and build up your armies.

3. Build up a couple of very mobile armies, let by strong companions (Aragorn/Gandalf.) Do not let these armies go into a siege.

4. Do not choose ahead of time where you will strike. Play it be ear and wait for a good opportunity. When you commit go all out.

5. Try not to use your elven rings early in the game. Your opponent can save them to muster in a stronghold you are going to attack.

6. Wait for a turn your opponent rolls few muster or army dice, then strike fast.

7. Use your cards well. Cards like Through Day and a Night and Path of Woses can really catch your opponent by surprise. Fear Fire Foes and Book of Marzabul are very helpful.

Don't be afraid to go for it. Even if you lose it will be a very fun and different game. Also don't give up completely on the ring. It is likely he will put zero dice in if you don't move it. Then if he rolls no eyes, you could have 4 or more free moves.
11 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luke Heidebrecht
Canada
Saskatoon
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
La_Gofr wrote:
I was also thinking myself going North with North men. It has 3 VPs. But I would need a lot of dice to bring them to war and move them up there ! And I would still need another VP to win, maybe run for Moria...?

I just don't know where would be best to strike and with which army. I was originally thinking North as it is not heavily loaded from the beginning, but there is not enough VP(only 3) back there to win...

Any feedback from FP Military Victory games (or close to victory) is welcome

Thanks


Contingency plan and feign.

I think the most viable (and possibly most fun) option for a FPMV is to play the ring game and slowly watch, build up forces in key locations, and wait for the opportunity to strike when the Shadow has overcommitted their forces (contingency plan). An equally viable military move for a Free Peoples' player is to reconquer a taken stronghold if its left relatively undefended. This is a great threat in distant regions such as in the Woodland Realm or Erebor. Threaten the Shadow in this way (perhaps building up in Carrock) and move North instead (feign).

I hesitate to call this a "strategy" since I agree with several posters that the military victory as a full-front attack strategy is doomed. Tangential targets will be the shadows worst enemy.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's like shooting the moon in Hearts. Almost certain to fail if the SP sees it coming. But if the SP puts too little thought into protecting against a FPMV, you might be able to succeed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Long
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Fly Eagles Fly!
badge
The Cthulhu player, not the Football player.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
La_Gofr wrote:
radynski wrote:
Draw "Fear, Fire, Foes!" on your first turn.

This would indeed help a lot to ensure a quick attack in the North. But the odds to draw it 1st turn are poor.


Yep!

Try this:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/3133205#3133205
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raf B
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FP has an obvious path to FPMV, if only they would seize it!

First action of turn 1 should be to separate Frodo from Sam.
Second action should be to persuade Frodo to give Boromir the One Ring; if there are a lot of Eyes in the Hunt, Boromir simply separates the ring from Frodo.
Use remaining Musters to move Gondor to At War and other actions to move Boromir to Minas Tirith.
Sorted.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff K
United States
Garner
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"It is a gift. A gift to the foes of Mordor!!"
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ira Fay
United States
New Haven
CT
flag msg tools
designer
:-)
badge
Fay Games logo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To the original poster, my advice is to watch some replays of good players trying FPMV. Here are a few examples:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/16649971#16649971 (This game changed my mind about FPMV)

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/24255142#24255142 (Allocated 3 eyes turn 1, but that can certainly happen as a result of randomness)


https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23683428#23683428 (Another good game, and also includes details about how to watch the replays if you don't already have the Java program)

In the 2017 WotR tournament, there were 8 FPMV. http://mapsandmoreshop.de/pm_wotr/2017/
Any game marked with "fm" means FPMV, and you can download the log and watch the game. I recommend watching all 8, so you see how it can happen - many happen mid-game, but not all are mistakes from shadow. In particular, I played a game myself where I went for it from the beginning. It was in the biggest tournament of the year, and it mattered to me, so I wasn't fooling around - I was trying my best to win the game, and I thought that path would yield the best results. You can see it here: http://mapsandmoreshop.de/pm_wotr/2017/logs/Rnd2_Ira_Dashz_3...


To everyone on this thread who said that a good shadow player will always win against a FPMV attempt: I challenge you to a game!

I might not win the FPMV attempt, but I'm quite confident that my chances will be reasonable, and not much different from a normal game.

I'm not sure what the chances are for shadow to win a normal game. Let's say 55%? If you try a FPMV whenever shadow has at least 2 eyes in the hunt on turn 1, I think your chances aren't much worse than 45% to win as free. If you try FPMV only when shadow has 3+ eyes on turn one, or you have good starting cards, then I think your chances as FP are as good as a normal game. And of course, most shadow players don't have much practice playing against FPMV from the start, so you often do have a little advantage there.

My attitude used to be the same as you, but having played more, I'm certain that FPMV is a very viable path to victory. It's certainly not guaranteed, but neither is the ring route.
6 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mark schultz
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
I love this game, many people will tell you that against a veteran player, this strategy is impossible. ba humbug! the key is first to make use of your companions.(gimli, boromir, and legolas together in dol amroth really make taking that stronghold hard especially if you draw some rally cool event cards) get Aragorn crowned as quickly as possible ,then get him to rohan fast. speaking of rohan , muster ,muster ,muster using Gandalf's rapid fire card use abilities. there are a lot of nice muster cards for everyone and a couple of quick start to war cards try to get the elves at lorian to war and muster a couple there as well. the goal, to create an elite "panzer" strike force if you will. centrally located on the board. also don't be afraid to abandon traditional strongholds especially minus tireth. ( the shadow has some really nasty cards that make holding that site costly) osgiliath is key in the south.i generally favor marching forward into osgiliath with pelgear too! (note!use one muster early on gondor to bring it to the brink of war) let shadow spend the other to get you to war status and quick troop muster. next don't forget dew line with gandolf as guide you can use his rapid card replacement to quickly unite the north and dwarves. consolidate and build a nice army there. once youv gotten the best use out of ganolf the grey separate and bring in the "rommell" of middle earth. when and where is a timing thing, generally speaking opportunities will present itself. have fun
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ira Fay
United States
New Haven
CT
flag msg tools
designer
:-)
badge
Fay Games logo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is a FPMV game I played tonight:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/300tuol5kce8k5p/Ira_Ron_FPMV.log?d...

I think my Shadow opponent made a few mistakes, but not anything so egregiously bad. I did have good luck with early WoWs, and a nice number of eyes later.

More than anything, my assertion here is that FPMV from the beginning isn't significantly worse winning chances than going for a ring victory. Depending on the opening cards and opening rolls, FPMV is a perfectly viable path to victory. Not guaranteed, but viable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Dexter
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
ira212 wrote:
To the original poster, my advice is to watch some replays of good players trying FPMV. Here are a few examples:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/16649971#16649971 (This game changed my mind about FPMV)

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/24255142#24255142 (Allocated 3 eyes turn 1, but that can certainly happen as a result of randomness)


https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23683428#23683428 (Another good game, and also includes details about how to watch the replays if you don't already have the Java program)

In the 2017 WotR tournament, there were 8 FPMV. http://mapsandmoreshop.de/pm_wotr/2017/
Any game marked with "fm" means FPMV, and you can download the log and watch the game. I recommend watching all 8, so you see how it can happen - many happen mid-game, but not all are mistakes from shadow. In particular, I played a game myself where I went for it from the beginning. It was in the biggest tournament of the year, and it mattered to me, so I wasn't fooling around - I was trying my best to win the game, and I thought that path would yield the best results. You can see it here: http://mapsandmoreshop.de/pm_wotr/2017/logs/Rnd2_Ira_Dashz_3...


To everyone on this thread who said that a good shadow player will always win against a FPMV attempt: I challenge you to a game!

I might not win the FPMV attempt, but I'm quite confident that my chances will be reasonable, and not much different from a normal game.

I'm not sure what the chances are for shadow to win a normal game. Let's say 55%? If you try a FPMV whenever shadow has at least 2 eyes in the hunt on turn 1, I think your chances aren't much worse than 45% to win as free. If you try FPMV only when shadow has 3+ eyes on turn one, or you have good starting cards, then I think your chances as FP are as good as a normal game. And of course, most shadow players don't have much practice playing against FPMV from the start, so you often do have a little advantage there.

My attitude used to be the same as you, but having played more, I'm certain that FPMV is a very viable path to victory. It's certainly not guaranteed, but neither is the ring route.


I will challenge you to a 2 game series where we each have to try FPMV once. It would be more good data on the viability of FPMV, good practice both attempting and defending it, and fun since FPMV always makes for interesting games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ira Fay
United States
New Haven
CT
flag msg tools
designer
:-)
badge
Fay Games logo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
savedbyhim01 wrote:
I will challenge you to a 2 game series where we each have to try FPMV once. It would be more good data on the viability of FPMV, good practice both attempting and defending it, and fun since FPMV always makes for interesting games.
Sounds fun, and I accept!

I propose that shadow allocates 2 eyes on round 1 to simulate the situations where FPMV is most likely to be attempted, and maybe give FP 1 or 2 dwarven rings, just to make the chances of missing a WoW a bit lower (which I think is one of the least fun parts of the game when you miss a WoW for a long time).

Finally, FP can still win with a ring victory, but obviously the point is to test out FPMV, so that should be part of FP strategy in some way. Feel free to message me to work out details!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Dexter
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
ira212 wrote:
savedbyhim01 wrote:
I will challenge you to a 2 game series where we each have to try FPMV once. It would be more good data on the viability of FPMV, good practice both attempting and defending it, and fun since FPMV always makes for interesting games.
Sounds fun, and I accept!

I propose that shadow allocates 2 eyes on round 1 to simulate the situations where FPMV is most likely to be attempted, and maybe give FP 1 or 2 dwarven rings, just to make the chances of missing a WoW a bit lower (which I think is one of the least fun parts of the game when you miss a WoW for a long time).

Finally, FP can still win with a ring victory, but obviously the point is to test out FPMV, so that should be part of FP strategy in some way. Feel free to message me to work out details!


Ok, these terms sound fine to me. Perhaps later we can make a new post so that those who are interested in FPMV can follow along. I will be in touch via Facebook.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joffrey N.
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
savedbyhim01 wrote:
ira212 wrote:
savedbyhim01 wrote:
I will challenge you to a 2 game series where we each have to try FPMV once. It would be more good data on the viability of FPMV, good practice both attempting and defending it, and fun since FPMV always makes for interesting games.
Sounds fun, and I accept!

I propose that shadow allocates 2 eyes on round 1 to simulate the situations where FPMV is most likely to be attempted, and maybe give FP 1 or 2 dwarven rings, just to make the chances of missing a WoW a bit lower (which I think is one of the least fun parts of the game when you miss a WoW for a long time).

Finally, FP can still win with a ring victory, but obviously the point is to test out FPMV, so that should be part of FP strategy in some way. Feel free to message me to work out details!


Ok, these terms sound fine to me. Perhaps later we can make a new post so that those who are interested in FPMV can follow along. I will be in touch via Facebook.


If you guys are willing to make a quick text recap of your game (I still havnt figured out how to use log yet), it would be awesome !

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ira Fay
United States
New Haven
CT
flag msg tools
designer
:-)
badge
Fay Games logo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This has info on how to watch replays:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23683428#23683428
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh G
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmb
I don't want to just reiterate the same strategy anecdotes as everyone else, but I've played maybe a dozen games right now (base game no expansions) and I've only seen FP military victories occur when the shadow player makes a big mistake or rolls terribly.

I played a PBEM game a few nights ago and things couldn't have started off better for the FPP (me). Book of Mazarbul AND Fear, Fire Foes EARLY. In fact, the North went to war before anyone else (even Shadow nations) which was hilarious (I drew a "1" hunt tile, chose a random companion, got lucky with Pippin and sent him to Bree to rouse the North to war. We made up a story that Pippin made a play for the ring, got kicked out by Gandalf, and the poor lonely hobbit wandered back to Bree for a pint, got drunk and spilled the beans to curious townsfolk who got freaked out by his stories about dark lords and ringwraiths and armies of orcs, so the North took matters into their own hands.

But this gave the Shadow Player a LOT of notice and he was able to stop all of my advances. At one point we were tied 5 victory points apiece (Five! With the FPP!) but I couldn't hold them since my armies were too spread out or weakened. He managed to bring me down to 3 before the end of a round and then back down to 0 the round after that.

I eventually gave up on military victory and tried to focus on the fellowship, even getting them to Mount Doom, but by then corruption was at 9 or 10 and the SPP was hovering around 7-8 points.

In the end the SPP won by military after all the event card decks were depleted.

Even in games where military victory wasn't on the FPP's mind, simply sending an army near a SPP settlement will cause that player to muster enough troops to ward off all but a large invasion force.

It seems that the players above have it right. You can only win FPP military victory under the right conditions.

1) Most critical: the element of surprise.

2) Wait for a turn in which the timing is right: SPP rolls unhelpful action dice, is spread out, and you have more army dice ready to go than he does.

3) The ability to seize 4 points in a single round. Good luck with that!

4) Speaking of luck... Even if 1, 2 and 3 are in your favour, you still need luck on your side. If you can't win a quick siege, you won't win the game as the FPP.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Genestealer Patriarch
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've had one where the SP already had the entire Sauron army on the board (so no reinforcements), and rolled no less than seven eyes. Just a case of picking which strongholds to take...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.