Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Overwhlemed. Where to start? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So, I've somehow missed the existence of this game/franchise until recently.

I'm really intrigued, but don't know where to start. I like the Weird West theme, but also really like Samurai theme.

There seem to be a million different expansion options.

Is this a game that "works" with just one of the base boxes, or does it really need a bucketload of expansions to be playable?

I can see that it's still possible to late-back Forbidden Fortress. Shogun level is out of my price-range, is Sumo worth it?

Are there big mechanical differences between the base sets? can they all be fully integrated with each other?

I've also noticed that the online retailer I generally use has loads of expansions, but no base games in - is this OOP, and people are just selling off old stock? or is it likely that they just need to do a re-order.

Sorry for the stream of questions. Hoping someone can shed some light on where to start/go

Thanks

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete aka The Masked Minstrel
Australia
Perth
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The game does work with just the base games, though adding more stuff will obviously give you greater variety.
One of the base games I think its Swamps gives you a spell casting character in the priest, though you can opt to take a shotgun instead and focus on shooting, otherwise you get to choose between helpful spells or offensive spells.
City of Ancients gives you the Gunslinger who is a awesome shooter and the Saloon girl who I believe is more of a support character, never played her yet.

The thing with both base games is that all the monsters are melee orientated so adding particular expansions gives you ranged and magic using enemies for different tactics.
I guess its just a case of how long before playing the base games become too 'samey'

I plan on adding Forbidden Fortress to my collection in time, not sure if to jump on the late backing or not
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel U. Thibault
Canada
Québec
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I find the Saloon Girl is a very scrappy fighter, less of asupport character than the Priest with his Sermons (not spells).

This is the kind of game where adding an extra multiplies the fun instead of just adding to it. Playing with "just" a base box (like Forbidden Fortress) runs the risk of going stale after a while.

And yes, the games are fully compatible. Forbidden Fortress is really a third base box for Shadows of Brimstone. It brings the Belly of the Beast, which was an unreached stretch goal of the original Kickstarter. (I'm eagerly expecting the Hell Train sometime down the line...)

As for stock, Flying Frog is catching up (the SoB Kickstarter was very, very late) and will eventually get stuff in stores (besides its own web store).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Caine
msg tools
Firstly, concerning Forbidden Fortress. The Frogs did an hour-long presentation about Forbidden Fortress at Gen Con 50 at their table. It's split over 3 videos, so you will probably get a reasonable idea about FoFo from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9h3uC3Dyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn7Up8uCiCo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_psIiQh47g

Sumo is the FoFo Core set with card expansions for the encounters and loot, two FoFo bosses, 2 other new enemy types (one each themed for each world featured in FoFo), the KS exclusive Trederran Hero and the Sumo, an enemy type themed for a different otherworld, and minis for a FoFo enemy type that would other be a token. Judging from the presentation and my experience of SoB, FoFo looks like an evolution on existing gameplay.


All of the Core Sets use the same basic ruleset, so you can plug and play with relatively few exceptions. There's a great degree of customization possible. You only ever need 1 Core Set to play - you don't need more than that. If you were to expand, then your best bet would be the deluxe enemy boxes. They don't simply introduce a new enemy type, but include new missions, new cards to add to your existing cardsets and 3 out of the 4 deluxe enemy types feature cards which alter the stats and some of the rules for the enemy type so you can keep things fresh.

As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shelby Babb
United States
Springdale
Arkansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Mightyjim wrote:

There seem to be a million different expansion options.


We'll come back to this, but with one (or two, or three) exception(s), you don't need to worry.

Mightyjim wrote:
Is this a game that "works" with just one of the base boxes, or does it really need a bucketload of expansions to be playable?


It "works", but base boxes come with only 1 world, 4 classes and a set of melee monsters. Now, each base box has a different world, classes, and monsters, so there's very little overlap (what overlap there is is in things like the rulebook).

You don't "need" expansions to play the game and make it work, but SoB thrives on its expansive nature.

The main objective complaint I've heard is that the core melee monsters are too easy. If you pick up Frontier Towns (the one expansion you might consider needing), you'll get some ranged opponents (and more developed rules for what to do in town). Other expansions also ramp up the difficulty (and variety!).

Also, be sure to visit FFP regularly as they sell small card expansions for the game and often have "buy 2 get 1 free sales".

Mightyjim wrote:
I can see that it's still possible to late-back Forbidden Fortress. Shogun level is out of my price-range, is Sumo worth it?


Sumo's a good deal, but if there's any way you could pinch pennies and get a Shogun I'd try to do so (and you have some time before late pledges close I'd imagine). They say the Shogun MSRP is over $900... even at 40% from an online discounter you'll still pay $540 to get everything (and some of that stuff is "exclusive"), making the $350 late pledge still a hell of a deal. Assuming you can catch a retailer able to stock it that is.

The main thing I'd caution you with though is that while the KS expected delivery is March of next year, if it delivers before 2019 I'll be pleasantly surprised. You -might- be happier waiting and just buying things (slowly) at retail.

If you -do- end up late pledging though, don't be too surprised if FFP offers you a way to "upgrade" your pledge to full retail at some point.
It'll probably be well worth it, but still cost you a few more bucks.

Mightyjim wrote:
Are there big mechanical differences between the base sets? can they all be fully integrated with each other?


Not per se. The different classes do play differently, and the different monsters are somewhat different, but everything is still part of the same game.

Everything currently out is cross-compatible, and the Samurai stuff should be compatible with the cowboy stuff as well. I know there are plenty of people just backing Forbidden Fortress to have new things to throw their Gunslingers and Saloon Girls.

Mightyjim wrote:
I've also noticed that the online retailer I generally use has loads of expansions, but no base games in - is this OOP, and people are just selling off old stock? or is it likely that they just need to do a re-order.


SoB stuff tends to sell out quick. Nothing is OOP yet that I'm aware of.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Sims
United States
Kansas
flag msg tools
Also, I would make sure that it is mentioned that the game itself, while very complete in terms of rules and functionality, does have some limitations based on how far you dive into it.

The key caveats that I would mention would be related to the need to consider options for storage and quick retrieval of the Map tiles, Encounter cards, and Map cards that tie those three things together.

In terms of how those can lend themselves to overall gameplay speedbumps, let's say that you need to draw a Map card during a turn. This also means that you can potentially have a specific Encounter that accompanies said Map card that you need to locate (if you want to do the Advanced Encounters), and both pertain to the same Map tile.

This involves having adequate storage to locate all 3 of those elements quickly to avoid pit stops that interrupt otherwise very fun and quick sequences of additional turns, but it can be a souring experience to only come to that realization after setting everything up to play AND going too far too fast with the initial purchases (as in, having 20lbs of game components to dig through to find something specific).

Find a base game, play it a bit, and consider how much additional legwork you would be willing to commit to before buying up a bunch of additional game content, specifically the additional base game and the deluxe Other Worlds expansions (Trederra and Blasted Wastes).

It's just one man's opinion, but I can say that I've spent an equal amount of time in my quest to organize this game and actually playing it. It's worthwhile for me, but I'd make sure that other people were aware of the above if they were scoping out their initial buy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shelby Babb
United States
Springdale
Arkansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah. Hope you have some spare shelves if you expand your SoB collection.

Also, just in case, be sure you're ready to invest some time into cutting/gluing/assembling all those minis. The one objective flaw of the game I'd say is that you have to put all the pieces together yourself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Lewis
United States
Tempe
Arizona
flag msg tools
mbmb
San Dee Jota wrote:
The one objective flaw of the game I'd say is that you have to put all the pieces together yourself.


Eh, as a former wargamer and fan of painting miniatures, I consider that a bonus. Makes it easier to customize each piece rather than have them just be board game pieces. To each their own though.

Otherwise, I don't have anything to add. The responses here have been pretty spot-on.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Troy Gustavel
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Mightyjim wrote:
Is this a game that "works" with just one of the base boxes, or does it really need a bucketload of expansions to be playable?


The game "works" with just one of the base boxes, but it gets much, much better with at least a few expansions. Pretty much universally agreed upon is that the Frontier Town expansion is the best. It adds a ranged combat enemy as well as making the whole experience feel more like a RPG by making the town visits not all feel the same.



Mightyjim wrote:
I can see that it's still possible to late-back Forbidden Fortress. Shogun level is out of my price-range, is Sumo worth it?


Either pledge level is worth it. Shogun is much more worth it. Even just the sumo level has a significant discount and comes with an exclusive hero class that won't be released to retail.


Mightyjim wrote:
Are there big mechanical differences between the base sets? can they all be fully integrated with each other?


There are NO mechanical differences between the 2 western core sets, just different monsters and classes and gear and a different other world, but the actual rulebook is the same in each of them. Forbidden Fortress will be completely compatible, there might be some additional rules in the rulebook, however. FFP have learned a lot since the original core sets and they "might" be including some rules that were created for expansion in that book. We know that FF map tiles have areas of difficult and/or impassible terrain on them, that is something that the original cores didn't include, and the set might include the rules for shootout and assault enemy types as well, we don't know yet. It is all just a case of additional options, however, everything from the Western themed sets will be fully compatible with the Japanese themed sets and vice-versa.



Mightyjim wrote:
I've also noticed that the online retailer I generally use has loads of expansions, but no base games in - is this OOP, and people are just selling off old stock? or is it likely that they just need to do a re-order.


This has been a trying kickstarter for FFP. They have had issues with vastly overpromising rewards as well as fraudulent manufacturer's in China, in addition to learning a new means of production and all the normal delays. This has made it difficult for them to juggle keeping up with non-KS demand while simultaneously trying to fulfull all the expansion for the very late KS. Most of that is dealt with now, however, and it is to be hoped that they will be able to get caught up on production of stuff soon.

Additional note, as I mentioned, they had numerous issues with the KS. Among them was a factory that outright lied to them about their experience with plastic miniatures. As a result of that, the miniatures in the 2 core boxes are.... not great. The monsters are OK, if a bit sparse on details, but the hero figs are just legitimately bad and there wasn't really anything they could do about that. The quality of all the subsequent miniatures has improved A LOT. They are still assembled plastic figs (or resin, in some cases), but the detail level and ease of assembly has improved immeasurable. Just something to keep in mind.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone for all the responses.

San Dee Jota wrote:

Also, just in case, be sure you're ready to invest some time into cutting/gluing/assembling all those minis. The one objective flaw of the game I'd say is that you have to put all the pieces together yourself.


I had missed this. As an ex wargamer, this isn't a deal-breaker, but good to know that it won't be hitting the table the day it arrives.


I think I'll see whether I can pick up a base set somewhere, and see how my wife gets on with the overall concept.

Is The Preacher in one of the expansions? if so, which one?

I might email the company and see how long the late-pledge option for Forbidden Fortress will be around for - if I can take a month to get a feel for the game, I think I'll be much more inclined to back.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Waggly Bean
United Kingdom
Walsall
West Midlands
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Preacher is in the Swamps core set.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Ridley Park
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Both cores and the town expansion are the best place to start.
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maximillian_Caine wrote:


As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!


Thanks - I'd been hoping to go through another online retailer as I have a load of Store Credit for them, but they're out-of-stock on both Base Games (they have loads of little expansions), and Esdevium (the distributor) have no word on when a re-stock will be due.

I'll check out Chaos Cards - it's good to know there are options, but always harder when spending real money...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
whiskemuscles wrote:
Both cores and the town expansion are the best place to start.


DistantOasis wrote:

The miniatures in the 2 core boxes are.... not great. The monsters are OK, if a bit sparse on details, but the hero figs are just legitimately bad and there wasn't really anything they could do about that. The quality of all the subsequent miniatures has improved A LOT. They are still assembled plastic figs (or resin, in some cases), but the detail level and ease of assembly has improved immeasurable. Just something to keep in mind.



A bit torn by this - if the expansion miniatures are that much better, then 1 Core + Expansions seems like a more obvious choice.

Is the benefit of double core that the core boxes offer more gameplay wise? Is there much duplication between the sets?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Ridley Park
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Mightyjim wrote:
whiskemuscles wrote:
Both cores and the town expansion are the best place to start.


DistantOasis wrote:

The miniatures in the 2 core boxes are.... not great. The monsters are OK, if a bit sparse on details, but the hero figs are just legitimately bad and there wasn't really anything they could do about that. The quality of all the subsequent miniatures has improved A LOT. They are still assembled plastic figs (or resin, in some cases), but the detail level and ease of assembly has improved immeasurable. Just something to keep in mind.



A bit torn by this - if the expansion miniatures are that much better, then 1 Core + Expansions seems like a more obvious choice.

Is the benefit of double core that the core boxes offer more gameplay wise? Is there much duplication between the sets?


You want both cores for all the gear and artifact cards. A BIG part of this game is getting the loot. One base set will get samey real quick.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Curtis
United States
Durham
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also the 4 new heroes really do make a difference.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Kroupa
United States
Rio Rancho
New Mexico
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
To be completely honest I proxie'd the crap out of the heroes and tossed the tossed the originals into my junk mini piles never to be heard from again. Monsters are fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Ridley Park
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
lextrix wrote:
To be completely honest I proxie'd the crap out of the heroes and tossed the tossed the originals into my junk mini piles never to be heard from again. Monsters are fine.


But you still need the hero cards and talent trees.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Caine
msg tools
Re. duplication. There's very little duplication. The fundamentals are the same, but the content is almost entirely different. Off the top of my head the scavenge and loot cards are the same, the depth tracker is the same, the wound, sanity, grit, exploration and side bag tokens are the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Kroupa
United States
Rio Rancho
New Mexico
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
whiskemuscles wrote:
But you still need the hero cards and talent trees.


True, I was just referring to the quality of the miniatures, cards etc are great
Although I do wish that they would have continued doing the printed material in the same layout for ease of access as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Florio
Japan
Tokyo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Hello and welcome to this hell!
Brimstone made me ditch most of my other Boardgames, I basically decided to invest all my hobby money in it, and it was worth it.

If you want to go all in it's going to be an expensive thing. The good thing is that you don't need to.



The products are categorized as follow:

Core Set - with 4 heroes, loads of Gear and Artifact cards, basic monsters that plays in both the mines and the otherworld.

Expansion Set (other than Frontier Town) - Introduces a new otherworld, new gear and artifact cards, new monsters, often new game mechanics specific to those monsters/world.

Frontier Town - Expands the Town phase of the game and introduces the Town Missions + the Bandits.

Enemy Set - Introduces a set of new monsters that expand generally both the mine and another world. Some of them expand only the mines.

Deluxe Enemy Set - New Monsters with new mechanics and cards associated with it. They generally have also Gear and Artifact cards related to those monsters. Most of the Deluxe Enemy Sets come with variants (For example the Serpentsmen of Jargono have various tribes).

Heroes - A class that's not part of a core set. Orphan, Prospector, Drifter, Cowboy, Jargono Native, Frontier Doc, Darkstone Shaman, Wandering Samurai

Card Packs - they expand a specific deck. Could be the Darkness deck, the Targa Artifact deck etc.

Adventure Card Pack - introduces an alternative game mode (Generally gives you more rewards but add difficulties)

Accessories - To pimp the game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maximillian_Caine wrote:


As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!


Spent a few days doing some research - went online, found the product... then clicked on it to order, and discovered that it was out-of-stock

Whereabouts is their physical shop based? do they tend to list stock separately from the online shop? or is it likely that they've just sold out in the last week?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United States
Ridley Park
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Mightyjim wrote:
Maximillian_Caine wrote:


As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!


Spent a few days doing some research - went online, found the product... then clicked on it to order, and discovered that it was out-of-stock

Whereabouts is their physical shop based? do they tend to list stock separately from the online shop? or is it likely that they've just sold out in the last week?


Their web store is http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim P
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
whiskemuscles wrote:
Mightyjim wrote:
Maximillian_Caine wrote:


As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!


Spent a few days doing some research - went online, found the product... then clicked on it to order, and discovered that it was out-of-stock

Whereabouts is their physical shop based? do they tend to list stock separately from the online shop? or is it likely that they've just sold out in the last week?


Their web store is http://flyingfrogproductions.mybigcommerce.com


I was meaning the UK retailer he'd mentioned previously as having copies on their shelves. I'd imagine that shipping from the US would make this way too expensive to buy direct from Flying Frog
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Canning
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Stand By, Ready
badge
Wolkenritter
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mightyjim wrote:
Maximillian_Caine wrote:


As you're based in the UK, I know that Chaos Cards has some copies of SoB, seeing as my CC local has both core sets on the shelf!


Whereabouts is their physical shop based? do they tend to list stock separately from the online shop? or is it likely that they've just sold out in the last week?


Folkestone, Kent
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.