Steve Gilbert
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Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?
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sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.

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darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



So what if Asmodee payed them to do it.
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darthhugo wrote:

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



My guess would be very similar, Amazon is a big marketplace and it attracts more "attention."

I had a buddy list sealed, unused products as "New" on his Amazon storepage. He got a cease and desist because he wasn't "an authorized dealer." His choice was sell new stock as "like-new" or take it somewhere else. Sold them on eBay as a "new product" without any issues.

Our guess was the company saw the listing and didn't want to compete on a marketplace as big as Amazon (especially since it was a "store"). eBay and others like it weren't worth it because they were individual sales, not "committed retailers".

Just a guess, but that was his experience
 
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There doesn't seem to be any reason why 109 wouldn't apply to board games.

Amazon and a given game company are free to come to whatever arrangement on pricing they want, within reason.
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darksurtur wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason why 109 wouldn't apply to board games.

Amazon and a given game company are free to come to whatever arrangement on pricing they want, within reason.


Price fixing.

Bad for the community.
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klkitchens wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason why 109 wouldn't apply to board games.

Amazon and a given game company are free to come to whatever arrangement on pricing they want, within reason.


Price fixing.

Bad for the community.


Clarification: on "advertised" pricing.

Minimum advertised pricing clauses are legal in the U.S., as far as I know.

Whether they are (economically) harmful is a question I can't answer offhand.

The question of limiting sale or resale to "authorized" dealers is more complex. Their justification as a means to limit counterfeiting seems to be quite compelling to U.S. retailers and courts.
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JRountrey wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



So what if Asmodee payed them to do it.


That's fine. Their business transaction that has nothing to do with me. Unless of course I am owner of the involved parties.

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darksurtur wrote:
Minimum advertised pricing clauses are legal in the U.S., as far as I know.

from my understanding unless I'm incorrectly including MAP in with vertical market price fixing...

not quite... since the SCOTUS ruling that broke 100 years of precedence that they were illegal... it's now that they are no longer automatically illegal... which barring lawsuits means for practical purposes companies can now engage in it
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darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.


As I understand it, that's pretty much it.

First sale doctrine allows you to resell it if you want, but doesn't give you any rights to a particular marketplace.
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JeffyJeff wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
Minimum advertised pricing clauses are legal in the U.S., as far as I know.

from my understanding unless I'm incorrectly including MAP in with vertical market price fixing...

not quite... since the SCOTUS ruling that broke 100 years of precedence that they were illegal... it's now that they are no longer automatically illegal... which barring lawsuits means for practical purposes companies can now engage in it


That would be a correct understanding. The ruling was that it was situationally legal or illegal and that it would be left up to future rulings to clarify what that meant. As far as I know there have yet to be any subsequent ruling making everything more or less fair game until someone pushes it far enough that a lawsuit happens.

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Steve Gilbert
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Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. I must admit to hesitating to ask certain questions because of the inevitable troll storms they create on other websites. BGGs rule!
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joetaco wrote:


I had a buddy list sealed, unused products as "New" on his Amazon storepage. He got a cease and desist because he wasn't "an authorized dealer." His choice was sell new stock as "like-new" or take it somewhere else. Sold them on eBay as a "new product" without any issues.

Our guess was the company saw the listing and didn't want to compete on a marketplace as big as Amazon (especially since it was a "store"). eBay and others like it weren't worth it because they were individual sales, not "committed retailers".

Just a guess, but that was his experience


To clarify, assuming I understand the legalities correctly: I don't think a C&D from ANA holds any legal water whatsoever. ANA has no legal ability to enforce concepts like "authorized distributor". However, ANA has come to an agreement with Amazon to not allow third party sellers (money surely changed hands to make this happen). And Amazon can disallow sellers from their marketplace for any reason they wish (probably would get into hot water over discriminatory reasons, though).

 
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darthhugo wrote:
JRountrey wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



So what if Asmodee payed them to do it.


That's fine. Their business transaction that has nothing to do with me. Unless of course I am owner of the involved parties.


It seems equally likely that Amazon might have wanted to avoid taking collateral damage from a guerrilla war between Asmodee, and brick and mortar stores leaking stock into the online channel, with a sideorder of Asmodee action against counterfeits.
Edit: spelling
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klkitchens wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
There doesn't seem to be any reason why 109 wouldn't apply to board games.

Amazon and a given game company are free to come to whatever arrangement on pricing they want, within reason.


Price fixing.

Bad for the community.


Life always finds a way.
 
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ConG wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
JRountrey wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



So what if Asmodee payed them to do it.


That's fine. Their business transaction that has nothing to do with me. Unless of course I am owner of the involved parties.


It seems equally likely that Amazon might have wanted to avoid taking collateral damage from a guerrilla war between Asmodee, and brick and mortar stores leaking stock into the online channel, with a sideorder of Asmodee action against counterfeits.
Edit: spelling


Good point. It also provides cover for Asmodee, their primary partner for Asmodee products.
 
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ConG wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
JRountrey wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
sgilbert wrote:
Just wondering if reselling board games is covered by First Sale Doctrine? If not, how are websites like Ebay, Shopgoodwill, Craigslist, etc. able to sell used games? If it is covered, why are Asmodee and Mayfair able to block 3rd party resellers of used products on Amazon?


I'm assuming that Amazon is the one enforcing the no-resale and has zero to do with a first sale doctrine.

Amazon's playground, Amazon's ball, Amazon's rules.



So what if Asmodee payed them to do it.


That's fine. Their business transaction that has nothing to do with me. Unless of course I am owner of the involved parties.


It seems equally likely that Amazon might have wanted to avoid taking collateral damage from a guerrilla war between Asmodee, and brick and mortar stores leaking stock into the online channel, with a sideorder of Asmodee action against counterfeits.
Edit: spelling


B&M are already selling on Amazon, no need to leak.
 
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