Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Massive Darkness» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement Restrictions and Range Equipped Characters rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Russell Campbell
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I want to make sure I've read the rules correctly:

1. If I am in a zone with an enemy I can not move (unless I have slippery of some such special skill)
2. Ranged / Magic weapons can not make attacks in the same zone as the character using them

Thus, barring any special skills, if all my characters have ranged weapons and are stuck in a zone with enemies, and don't have any Melee weapons to trade / equip...I effectively lost the game as I can do nothing?

Thanks,

Russ
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Harrow
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes to all of that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed.

Note that you also lose the game if you Transmute all your weapons into other Equipment, if you walk all the way to the highest numbered tile before opening a door, then open a door there and likely get one-shot by the enemies that spawn, or many other factors.

Getting locked down by monsters is a completely avoidable occurrence, so do not let it happen. Carry spare Melee weapons, be careful selecting which player opens doors (remembering you can be ambished) and think a little bit ahead.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
One other caveat - there are some ranged items that specifically say on the card that they can be used at range 0. (I wanna say it's a javelin of something er other?) But otherwise yea... hosed. I've found it's a good idea to hang on to at least on melee weapon that you can equip in a pinch.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher
United States
Unspecified
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ_c wrote:
I want to make sure I've read the rules correctly:

1. If I am in a zone with an enemy I can not move (unless I have slippery of some such special skill)
2. Ranged / Magic weapons can not make attacks in the same zone as the character using them

Thus, barring any special skills, if all my characters have ranged weapons and are stuck in a zone with enemies, and don't have any Melee weapons to trade / equip...I effectively lost the game as I can do nothing?

Thanks,

Russ


Yes, if you make a string of terrible decisions leading you to that situation you will lose the game. Don't do that.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Most games would give the enemy a free attack, not sure why they didn't do that
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
Most games would give the enemy a free attack, not sure why they didn't do that

Because then people would complain that you couldn't do the same thing to the Enemies. You'd also have to sort out if Ranged and Magic Enemies used their Melee or Ranged/Magic dice for the attack of opportunity, and whichever they chose, people would complain. Others would complain that the Slippery effects would be underpowered compared to other Skills.

So I doubt you are going to find a perfect solution to this under any circumstances. They decided that actors stop their opponent actors from being able to leave the Zone, and designed the game with that in mind.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Clipper wrote:
ryolacap wrote:
Most games would give the enemy a free attack, not sure why they didn't do that

Because then people would complain that you couldn't do the same thing to the Enemies. You'd also have to sort out if Ranged and Magic Enemies used their Melee or Ranged/Magic dice for the attack of opportunity, and whichever they chose, people would complain. Others would complain that the Slippery effects would be underpowered compared to other Skills.

So I doubt you are going to find a perfect solution to this under any circumstances. They decided that actors stop their opponent actors from being able to leave the Zone, and designed the game with that in mind.

free attack would be an incredibly harsh punishment, and ranged monsters should try to do the same thing if stuck with no target (but I think they all have a melee attack), slippery would be just fine because you wouldn't take damage from a free attack. But an insta lose because you get pinned is just stupid poor rule development
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I still fail to see why the rule is 'stupid poor'. There are many ways to avoid ever getting into such a situation, so you are actively committing suicide if you let it happen. It really is like running up to the Level 4 tile before opening your first door.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Clipper wrote:
I still fail to see why the rule is 'stupid poor'. There are many ways to avoid ever getting into such a situation, so you are actively committing suicide if you let it happen. It really is like running up to the Level 4 tile before opening your first door.
because there are other situation, not just ranged, where you can get caught by a roaming monster too early. Nothing should be an instant loss when there are elegant, tested, and successful rules out there to correct it. They pulled this from zombiecide where it made sense because it's a zombie game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
because there are other situation, not just ranged, where you can get caught by a roaming monster too early. Nothing should be an instant loss when there are elegant, tested, and successful rules out there to correct it. They pulled this from zombiecide where it made sense because it's a zombie game.

Could you describe such an example? Roaming Monsters only spawn at the level tokens, so you should be staying away from those if you can be trapped.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Dow
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
Ryan it sounds like you want to be able to play without consequences. Bad preparation deserves a quick death.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck Hurd
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You do have to play smart to the romaing monsters and we have found there is a learning curve. Using the shadows is imperative until you can upgrade your weapons. It's a good cat and mouse game at its core.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher
United States
Unspecified
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Limitations such as not being able to leave enemy zones lead to meaningful decisions and punish mistakes. Removing the consequences of dumb decisions rarely improve a game.

Take chess, for example. Limitations define the game, and it's the deepest game ever created.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SpoDaddy wrote:
Take chess, for example. Limitations define the game, and it's the deepest game ever created.

You better hope no Go fans are reading this thread . Of course your analogy also applies to it, though.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
randowed wrote:
Ryan it sounds like you want to be able to play without consequences. Bad preparation deserves a quick death.


How is the enemy getting free attack no consequence?

Quest 2 is a good example, if you get a roaming monster at the wrong time your screwed. The dungeon is a hallway. Free attack for leaving a space is a tried and true mechanic, it is also thematic to a dungeon crawl and add tactical decisions to the game, something they seemed hell bent not to do. Not to mention they already have the rule so arguing against it completely null (slippery teleport etc), it just needed to be expanded
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher
United States
Unspecified
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
randowed wrote:
Ryan it sounds like you want to be able to play without consequences. Bad preparation deserves a quick death.


How is the enemy getting free attack no consequence?


It's not getting trapped on a space for dumb play, which is what the game is built around. It's a much weaker slap on the wrist that can be managed around, and removes a lot of meaningful decisions from the game. Making a chess player do 5 pushups instead of losing the game when they get checkmated is not "no consequence" semantically speaking, but effectively it is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
the PREdiger
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
SpoDaddy wrote:

Yes, if you make a string of terrible decisions leading you to that situation you will lose the game. Don't do that.


It only takes to open a door with an ambush on it (guard spawns on your space)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thePREdiger wrote:
It only takes to open a door with an ambush on it (guard spawns on your space)

After deciding not to take a Melee weapon and after deciding to do this without waiting until you've acquired your Slippery-like Skill and after deciding you should do this without having another character acting after you to save you and after deciding not to let any other characters acting before you that can deal with Ambushes open that door.

There are a lot of ways to avoid it. If you don't use any of those ways, then you deserve your fate.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Lowe
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mb
In order to use attacks of opportunity, there is a whole system to put into place:

what's the trigger,

how many can be made each turn/round,

which attack do they use,

do magic and range get to make one if you move within their range,

if players can now move out of squares just taking an AOO do the mobs get to do the same and if so what is the point of playing a tanky character?

If mobs can move away from tanks, then what is are the mages supposed to do with their third action except move away from mobs to avoid being hit (if you say teleport then you forget you did that last turn so a turn is again wasted moving into combat)

Lots of considerations that change the fight mechanics.

The only thing close I would consider would be if the heroes outnumber the enemy count (mobs are 1 enemy) then heroes get slippery for that zone, but also the same is true: if the enemy count is greater than the hero count in a zone they too get slippery.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Tessmann
United States
Tustin
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Clipper wrote:
thePREdiger wrote:
It only takes to open a door with an ambush on it (guard spawns on your space)

After deciding not to take a Melee weapon and after deciding to do this without waiting until you've acquired your Slippery-like Skill and after deciding you should do this without having another character acting after you to save you and after deciding not to let any other characters acting before you that can deal with Ambushes open that door.

There are a lot of ways to avoid it. If you don't use any of those ways, then you deserve your fate.


You'd have to intentionally work to get into this situation, honestly. Nightshade Ranger, Sorcerer, and Battle Wizard all have escapes as their Free Class Skills. Bloodmoon Nightrunner and Warrior Priest are the only 2 classes you might play with Bows and Magic Weapons that don't have escapes by default.

So yes, if you were in a 2 player game with those 2 classes using specifically those 2 weapons, stand on the same tile and either get ambushed on your last character's turn or a Roaming Monster placed on top of you, you instantly lose.

I guess things like the Giant Spider can too, since it pulls in at range.

Now that you know how to play around it, this should never happen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julien Duminil
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
On friday, we were doing the Quest 3 with Lil' Ned/Bonecrusher, Sibyl/Ranger and Whisper/Nightrunner. While fighting in a Chamber on the first tile, we had an Unexpected Monster (Ogre Mage with an armor) angry spawning on the tile Level 2. The only "mistake" we made was to spawn it on the right Level 2 tile instead of the left one wow. Then we had no way to go to the Level 2 before he was on the path (only Sibyl had Slippery), and we had no way to hide from him (all shadow zones have line of sight to the patrol path) soblue.


Thus Lil' Ned decided to engage the Ogre Mage devil. He was not able to deal any damage to him but had the better defense and Taunt. Sibyl (Randed) and Whisper (Melee) were doing very little damage each round (Sibyl had the better damage, but the Ogre Mage heal when attacked from range 1+). The fight lasted several rounds snore. We finally killed him arrrh, but Lil' Ned and Whisper died the same turn gulp (but we did the right choice to let Sibyl to be the Chosen One ). Did not seem that fair to us, as we had not really other choices.


This was the first time I thought a Disengage action (letting you to go out of the enemy Zone, but giving an opportunity Melee attack to the Enemy) would have been really helpful, to let us farm some Level 2 treasures before engaging him. Finally we won the quest ninja (after a long and tense game). Another option would be to ignore all Roaming Monster events at Level 1 ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.