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Lovecraft Letter» Forums » General

Subject: Good lord the rules are a mess rss

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Gary Bradley
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Sometimes when you discard you apply the effects of the card.
Sometimes you don't.
Sometimes it depends on the card that you discard.
Sometimes the card tells you which of these it is.
Sometimes it doesn't and only the reference in the rulebook tells you.

What a goddam mess. I still have no idea if I'm playing this correctly.

I mean take Prof Armitage. That's the ONE card that I would expect the discarded card's effect to occur. And it doesn't.
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Tim Szerlong MIB#0786
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I don't agree at all. the rules are relative to madness cards and if you played them. RTFM before you post please
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Adam Kazimierczak
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If you've never played Love Letter, it's a bit of a beast for a 10 minute game. But, if all you really need is to understand insanity rules, it's not bad.
 
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Kilo Force
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I agree the rulebook is a bit of a mess for how simple of a game it is. But once you get past the rulebook, the game is easily memorized, and the tokens and cards are spectacular production!
 
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Gary Bradley
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Does this hold water...?

1) If another player forces me to discard a card, its event does NOT trigger. Not even the Mi-go Brain Case.

2) If I discard the card out of my own choice, for ANY reason, it does.

3) Cthulhu and the Necronomicon trump the rules above. You auto-lose if you discard either of those cards, regardless of why you did it.
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Steve
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I'm sorry what is causing #1? As far as I'm aware anytime you discard a card the event triggers but I might just be blanking on a card...

Sanity checks are the only time events don't trigger as far as I know.
 
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James Zealey
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Yeah, The rules read like they've been Google translated from another language in places.

For starters they might want to define "play" as "use the effects of the card" and "discard" for "don't use the effects of the card" like practically every other card game on the market.
 
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Happy Everything!
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Saeviomage wrote:
Yeah, The rules read like they've been Google translated from another language in places.

For starters they might want to define "play" as "use the effects of the card" and "discard" for "don't use the effects of the card" like practically every other card game on the market.


I just taught this one to some friends, two of whom haven't played Love Letters, and explained it in about 10 minutes.

Overview of the cards and sane vs. insane, then: When it's your turn, you draw a card. Read the card and decide which of your two cards you would like to play. Play your card's action. Put the card in your discard row when you have finished playing it. (To keep the explanation as simple as possible, I kept 'play area' and 'discard row' separate and had players discard the sanity check discards into their own discard rows.)

Sometimes another person's action forces you to discard a card. That card goes directly to your discard pile without making a pit stop in your play area. Keep in mind that three cards don't have actual actions for you to play, they take effect when they are discarded:

When you discard Mi-Go Brain Case during your own turn, you lose the round. If someone else forces you to discard Mi-Go Brain Case, it goes back to the center of the table and not to your discard row.

When Cthulu or Necronoicaon hit your discard row for any reason, including being discarded during a sanity check (more on sanity checks in a minute), you lose the round. But, because Cthulhu is all-powerful and thrives on insanity, if you discard him during your own turn and you already had at least two insanity cards in your discard row, you automatically win the whole game.

Followed by discussion of sanity checks and whether or not you're sane enough to continue. We played one round just to make sure everyone had a reasonable grip on it, then we started the game in earnest.

It worked out pretty well, given that one of the total newcomers won

BUT: I hope what I explained was a correct interpretation the rules. It was a smooth explanation, but it's hard to parse the rulebook angry




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Gary Bradley
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tigiba wrote:
When you discard Mi-Go Brain Case during your own turn, you lose the round. If someone else forces you to discard Mi-Go Brain Case, it goes back to the center of the table and not to your discard row.


I don't think this is correct. The Prof Armitage / Mi-go (Sane) cards specifically say (in the rules not on the card) that the card that is discarded to them HAS NO EFFECT. Since you can target yourself with Armitage or Mi-go, this means you could discard the Mi-go Brain Case on your own turn with no effect.

See what I mean?

 
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GaryB wrote:
tigiba wrote:
When you discard Mi-Go Brain Case during your own turn, you lose the round. If someone else forces you to discard Mi-Go Brain Case, it goes back to the center of the table and not to your discard row.


I don't think this is correct. The Prof Armitage / Mi-go (Sane) cards specifically say (in the rules not on the card) that the card that is discarded to them HAS NO EFFECT. Since you can target yourself with Armitage or Mi-go, this means you could discard the Mi-go Brain Case on your own turn with no effect.

See what I mean?



I think your interpretation is perfectly good and I think mine is perfectly good. I don't think the rule is 100% clear on this one, so I filled in the blanks with consistency in mind rather than creating an exception. Unless we get a ruling from the designer or a member of the design team, we'll never know for sure.

tl;dr I think the description for Prof Armitage is a victim of the 'action ''play' 'discard' 'effects' inconsistency in the rules, plus the 'everyone else is immune' explanation was slapdash. This wouldn't be the first oversight/mistake in the rulebook. I'll probably stick with my interpretation unless I hear otherwise because it doesn't make an exception. Discard Mi-Go Brain Case on your own turn and you are knocked out of the round. Period. Exceptions have to be remembered and this is supposed to be a game where a player does what the cards say, no?


Long-winded version:

When I read "That player discards their hand (but doesn't apply it's effects, unless it is the Necronomicon or Cthulhu)" I took that to be players discard their hand as in, the card is not played and the card goes to your discard row. Cards that take effect upon hitting your discard row, like Necronomicon or Cthulhu, still knock you out because they knock you out any time they hit your discard row and for any reason. If another player discards Mi-Go Brain Case in this situation, they're safe because Mi-Go Brain Case specifically says, "When you discard this card during your turn, you lose the round." It's not their turn, so they aren't knocked out when they discard it.

Then the rules give the unlikely special case of having to discard your own hand if (and only if) everyone else is immune. Honestly, I think not addressing Mi-Go Brain Case at that point is just an oversight. The Mi-Go Brain Case card says, "When you discard this card during your turn, you lose the round." If you play Armitage and are forced to discard Mi-Go Brain Case from your own hand because everyone else is immune, then you are discarding Mi-Go Brain Case during your turn and you lose the round.

Honestly, I don't think one interpretation is better than the other. I'll probably stick with mine because it doesn't make an exception. Discard Mi-Go Brain Case on your own turn and you are knocked out of the round. Period. Exceptions have to be remembered and this is supposed to be a game where a player does what the cards say, no?
 
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Happy Everything!
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Thank you for making me work thru this, because I think I did make one mistake: Mi-Go Brain Case shouldn't go back to the middle of the table, it should stay in the player's discard row because it was safely discarded. If the round should come down to a card count, then the safely discarded Mi-Go Brain Case should be included in the count?
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Steve
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If the round should come down to a card count? That's not in the rules as far as I know. You either have the highest card in your hand, or you tie someone else and are eliminated. Is there another rule I'm missing?
 
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Nyarthlotep wrote:
If the round should come down to a card count? That's not in the rules as far as I know. You either have the highest card in your hand, or you tie someone else and are eliminated. Is there another rule I'm missing?


Hm. In regular Love Letter, ties are broken by discards.

I obviously skimmed right over multiple players with the same numbered card being knocked out. I guess that means in Lovecraft Letters it's OK if no one wins the round, which is what would happen if there were two players left when the draw pile runs out and both players have the same numbered card. It seems a little odd, but the whole game is a little odd

Edit -- and I forgot that Mi-Go Brain Case is zero anyway, so it doesn't matter whether he's in the middle of the table or legally in your discard row... Nevermind.
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Gary Bradley
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Wait, so you are knocked out if the Necronomicon is your sanity check card?
 
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From the description of The Necronomicon on p15:

"If you ever discard The Necronomicon -- no matter how or why, so even during a sanity check -- you lose the track of your cousin. You are immediately knocked out of the game."
 
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