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Subject: Using shared files for profit rss

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mike heim
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I helped design the 3d Printed Standee Stands to share with the Gloomhaven community immediately after the first KS arrived. The standee stands shipped with the game were cheap, brittle, and we broke 2 right away. Isaac received plenty of feedback on these from multiple independent sources and made better stands for 2nd edition (please be here by Xmas!).

Anyway, an Etsy seller has taken my 3d printer still files and is selling the product for profit. He has also grabbed other people's files from BGG to do the same.

On my files page I specifically state that I am sharing these and they are not to be reproduced for profit. I guess the Etsy seller didn't read this (or he just ignored it).

Do I have any recourse? Also, how do the other designers who have shared their files feel about him profiting off their files as well?

If you think this is wrong, would you please join me by sending an email to his Etsy account letting him know as well. I've already tried to communicate with him but he has yet to respond.

https://www.etsy.com/shop/HobbyLaserCutting?ref=l2-shopheade...

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/145269/3d-printed-standee...
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Daniel Cowdery
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Yes, you have a civil case of infringement.

Most likely your only recourse is to hire a Lawyer to draft a Cease and Desist Letter. Then have the Law Firm send the letter to the jerk. If he does not stop, you can sue him.

Sorry... you do not deserve this. It really chaps my hide to see good people, making things for the community, getting shafted. I wish you all the best, and I hope you burn the creep that stole your idea.
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Pat E. Cakes
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hiring a lawyer sounds like spending hundreds to thousands of dollars. you into that? For a best case scenario that they have to stop and to enforce that you will need more thousands spent on more lawyers.

Why not just start selling them yourself?

Why not just enjoy a game?
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patrick mullen
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They say on one of their descriptions they got the file from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2266980, which did credit you, but didn't pass on the not for profit conditional. So they may not have seen that, though they should have done due diligence to verify. Hopefully our emails will get them to take it down.
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al cann
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No good deed goes unpunished .... as they say.

What would be nice is if one of our attorney BGG members reads your post and will draft a letter for you.

I would do it myself, but I don't currently practice, having abandoned the practice of law to be an educator.
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David desJardins
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You may or may not have a legal case, but I don't understand why you're angry. It sounds like you don't want to sell the items yourself. So now people have two choices, they can use your files and make their own stands, or they can pay someone who will do it for them. Why don't you want them to have that choice? It seems like he's just providing a useful service to people who want it.
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mike heim
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DaviddesJ wrote:
You may or may not have a legal case, but I don't understand why you're angry. It sounds like you don't want to sell the items yourself. So now people have two choices, they can use your files and make their own stands, or they can pay someone who will do it for them. Why don't you want them to have that choice? It seems like he's just providing a useful service to people who want it.


Can you explain where you read that I was angry?
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David desJardins
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kzinti wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
You may or may not have a legal case, but I don't understand why you're angry.


Can you explain where you read that I was angry?


Choose a different word then. Unhappy. Dissatisfied. Displeased. Why do you want to stop him from doing this?
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mike heim
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If you don't understand the principle of sharing without intent of those who participate to profit from it, I expect that there are plenty here who will happily explain it to you.

However, I assume that you're smarter than that and can figure it out.
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David desJardins
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kzinti wrote:
If you don't understand the principle of sharing without intent of those who participate to profit from it, I expect that there are plenty here who will happily explain it to you.

However, I assume that you're smarter than that and can figure it out.


I understand why you think it should be within your rights to keep him from selling the items. What I don't understand is why you actually want to keep him from selling the items. If anyone can "happily explain it", perhaps it could just be you; you are undoubtedly the foremost expert on what you yourself think.

If I pay someone to use their 3D printer to make your models, and they profit from that, are you ok with that? If I buy 3D supplies to make your models, and they profit from that, are you ok with that? I doubt you're against all kinds of profit.
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Shu-Chu Li
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Already flagged his shop by using the "Report this shop to Etsy" link. Hope it will work.
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David desJardins
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kzinti wrote:


I'm even more confused now because you say on this page that you linked to that it's ok with you for people to hire a 3D print service to make the models. Why is it ok to pay someone to make the models (and they make a profit from that) but not to pay someone to paint and assemble them?
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mike heim
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Under your logic, do you believe print and play games can be downloaded, custom printed/mass produced and sold for profit without the designer's permission?

I know that you're a smart guy but your argument is weak so I wonder if you're trolling...
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mike heim
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Also, perhaps you didn't bother to read the 4th sentence in the post you linked.
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David desJardins
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kzinti wrote:
Under your logic, do you believe print and play games can be downloaded, custom printed/mass produced and sold for profit without the designer's permission?


I'm not asking about what can legally be done. I'm asking about why you or anyone else would want to restrict that. If I created a print and play game and I posted it for anyone to print out and play for themselves, and even made a file that someone could send to a commercial printer to have them print all of the components for a fee, then sure, I would also be happy if someone wanted to offer the service of taking all of those printed components and sorting them and putting them in a box as an additional option that people could pay for, or not. Why wouldn't I be?

You keep saying it's so obvious why you object to this but if it were really so obvious, why not just explain why?
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mike heim
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...because it is my intellectual property that I have given permission to use with explicit instructions not to profit from it. Nothing more NEEDS to be explained than just that.

Does that clear it up for you?

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mike heim
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I've just been informed that this situation is covered under BGGs Creative Commons policy.

Thank you all for the support and critical questioning. Most of you were correct. I shouldn't speak more on this matter until resolved though.

Cheers, and thanks for the support.
MH
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David desJardins
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kzinti wrote:
...because it is my intellectual property that I have given permission to use with explicit instructions not to profit from it. Nothing more NEEDS to be explained than just that.


You don't NEED to explain anything. There's no requirement to post on BGG at all.

Legal rights can be used in all sorts of ways. You may have the legal right to hoard your food even if someone else is starving and needs it. But that doesn't mean that other people need to respect your decision or agree with it. If you can't or won't explain why you choose to exercise your rights in this way, then you can't expect me to have much sympathy for your choices or to support them. "Because the law gives me that right" isn't much of an argument; there are lots of things that the law gives you the right to do that you nevertheless should not do.
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kzinti wrote:
...because it is my intellectual property that I have given permission to use with explicit instructions not to profit from it. Nothing more NEEDS to be explained than just that.

Does that clear it up for you?



I'd be angry if someone took my intellectual property and profited from it when it has been clearly explained that nobody is too profit from the designs.

I'm glad to hear the BGG Creative Commons policy is looking out for you.
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David desJardins
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ayano wrote:
I'm glad to hear the BGG Creative Commons policy is looking out for you.


I don't think Creative Commons has anything to do with this. The file he refers to was uploaded with All Rights Reserved, not with a CC license. BGG does offer the alternative to use a CC license, but he didn't select it. And the CC license gives more permission to reuse the content than the default license, not less.
 
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Daniel Cowdery
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David, for being such a smart guy, you sure can be clueless at times.shake
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Marco van Barneveld
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If you want you can write a review to his shop with the link to your free file.
This would alert a potential buyer.

Additional thought: I truly get your "don't want people to make a profit from it".

I'm a total noob when it comes to 3D printing, so I've no good idea of how many PLA is used. Could the price asked be close material and machine use costs?

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David desJardins
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Personally, I have been wanting bases like this for a while, but it's more trouble than I'm willing to go to to make them myself. So having someone who will sell me the complete package for a very low price is a great deal. I'm really pleased that someone would offer that service. That said, I am bothered by the idea that someone who originally contributed to the concept doesn't want me to buy these. So I still haven't decided what to do.
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Marco van Barneveld
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Personally, I have been wanting bases like this for a while, but it's more trouble than I'm willing to go to to make them myself. So having someone who will sell me the complete package for a very low price is a great deal. I'm really pleased that someone would offer that service. That said, I am bothered by the idea that someone who originally contributed to the concept doesn't want me to buy these. So I still haven't decided what to do.


David, IF I read all the posts above correctly; It's not about Mike not wanting you to buy the standees he has created. It's about respect to the creator of that file.

It's about the Etsy seller "HobbyLaserCutting" trying to make money from something that is intended to be freeware. Mike is the creator and HobbyLaserCutting shows him disrespect by going directly against his wishes. I'm no lawyer, but this is in the grey area of "copyright infringement".

You say you would like to have these bases. Mike has stated that you are allowed to save the file, take it to a local 3d printer and print them. If you don't own a printer yourself, it's logical that you need to pay the person who does own a printer, for material and machine use. I guess Mike would be ok with that. (forgive me if you're not, Mike )
and I guess; if you would say to your printer; "hey man, thanks for your help, here's an extra $5,-" it wouldn't be a problem either.

But as it is now; HobbyLazerCutting seems to be saying: He, I've found this freeware, I'm gonna add it to my shop and make a buck out of it" and that's not cool.


So, if you allow me a suggestion on what you can do: Download the file, take it to a local 3D printer (a creators lab / makers lab or such) and get it printed a cost price. That way you can obtain the bases in a way that respects the creator and his wishes.


Final note:
To me, this..
DaviddesJ wrote:
So I still haven't decided what to do.

... shows you were not trolling, but genuinely was struggling to understand Mike's point of view. I hope this helped.

Enjoy the game all
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David desJardins
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Marco van Barneveld wrote:
It's about the Etsy seller "HobbyLaserCutting" trying to make money from something that is intended to be freeware.

I guess; if you would say to your printer; "hey man, thanks for your help, here's an extra $5,-" it wouldn't be a problem either.


I really don't see any difference. That's exactly what he's offering on Etsy.

Quote:
So, if you allow me a suggestion on what you can do: Download the file, take it to a local 3D printer (a creators lab / makers lab or such) and get it printed a cost price. That way you can obtain the bases in a way that respects the creator and his wishes.


It's too much trouble. If that's the option, I'll go without (which is what I've done so far).
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