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Subject: What's the deal with rhyming words? rss

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Peter Hodges
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I feel like the rhyme words section in the rule book leaves a lot to ambiguity.

"Rhymes are always valid when they refer to meanings. Snail is a valid clue for MAIL because this rhyme is a common phrase."

Ok that's fine by me and very clear.

"Snail is also a valid clue for WHALE because they are both animals."

This one makes it more iffy to me. I don't see this as valid at all for some reason.

"Snail is not a valid clue for SCALE because their main association is through the sound of words."

Totally agree.

"(If someone in your group has a job weighing snails, however, this clue is perfectly fine.)"

This totally throws me for a loop as now it doesn't have to do with word meanings at all.

The game we recently played, the spymaster used "bury: 4" to describe multiple words on the table, one of which was "berry". The argument being that that is something you can do to a berry, much like you can weigh snails. There was some debate if this is legal. It didn't stop the game and we moved on but can anyone provide more insight?
 
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David Bell
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Eugene
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This is kind of a self-correcting problem. If you have to stretch the meaning of the rules to the breaking point to justify a clue, why do you expect your team to be able to guess it? If the only connection that the guessers can think of between bury and berry is that they sound alike, then they shouldn't guess that word! Excessive cleverness in this game just gets you into trouble.

If the connection between the meanings of bury and berry does make sense to the guessers, though, then that's fine.
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James J
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I think it's just something your group has to be clear on. If you explicitly state that rhymes are not allowed, then I believe linking berry and bury are fine, but then your team has to get to them through that link - since they know you aren't linking them through rhymes.

Edit: Ninja'd and phrased better. The post above captures exactly what I was trying to say.
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Alison Mandible
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I don't think that's legal. No reasonable person would connect "bury" to "berry" if they weren't near-homophones. Admittedly, you *could* bury a berry. Perhaps if every other word on the board was something totally un-bury-able, I could see it being an ambiguous case. But lacking any other connection it looks like a bad clue to me.

As for the snails, here's what I think--

If someone in your group has a job weighing snails, then that person, and maybe their friends, does associate scales with snails. You can tell it's about meanings (rather than the form of the word) because it still works even if you replace a word by a near-synonym -- if instead the clue was "Mollusk", then your snail-weighing friend might still associate it with SCALE.
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Evgeni Marinov
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To add to what the others have said:
Quote:
The argument being that that is something you can do to a berry, much like you can weigh snails.

This argument is missing the hypothesis given in the rulebook - "If someone in your group has a job weighing snails" - something like this would give context behind describing "scale" with "snail", which would make the play legal. Do you have someone in your group known for burying berries? If not, then that particular argument is not valid.
Furthermore, any object can be weighed or buried, is that enough to make a reference? A sandwich can be buried, but would anyone use "bury" to describe "sandwich", without some context?
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Ali Cali
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Quote:
"(If someone in your group has a job weighing snails, however, this clue is perfectly fine.)"

I'm pretty sure whoever wrote the instructions was just trying to be funny. How many people have a job weighing snails?
 
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Henry Dove
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The sou chef at a french restaurant
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