Tigger Nicholson
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Ok, so when combining items, do the effects for a given action stack , despite being in different boxes and/or on different items?

Its best I give an example (which I have simplified slightly to make clearer:

I have a combined item - lets say a bolas and a knife combined together- which have the following effects:

For Hunting : The bolas can give you 3 stars
For Hunting : The knife can give you 1 star .


If I do a hunting action and spend a charge, do I get:
a) both effects, giving me 4 stars.

b) or you have to choose one of the two - in this case the bolas, giving me 3 stars.

Follow up question: If b), could I spend 2 charges and get 4 stars ?

 
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Dan Hollow
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You can lower the durability during the item phase of an action to apply any or all applicable effects of an item stack. So in your example you can get 4 stars (plus whatever seven stars that are on that for each seven you draw). You can however decide not to apply the bolas because those get discarded if you applied their bonus. And you can only use each stack once per item phase, so no double dipping.

So here is how that action works if you apply both the Knife and the Bolas (and nothing else) during the item step: you lower the pip by 1, you then decide to draw three cards and get 2 stars for a total of 6 stars. [...] If your item stack is now at 0 durability, you discard the whole stack. If it's at 1 or above now, you still have to discard the Bolas because that's what it says on their card.

Edit: Check out my community FAQ in the files section and/or the corresponding thematic FAQ thread in the rules forum if you haven't already. A lot of similar questions are answered in there .
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Klaus T.
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Answer is “a”.

When you use an item, you reduce the durability by 1, and you get to use all the cards within this item stack (where the brown icon matches your action).
 
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Laura Blachek
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A) is correct, per page 11 of the rulebook

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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A) is closest, but it is not fully correct. Dan has it right.

It's actually:

In step 1 of the Action, you spend a pip to get access to the effects of that item. You can only spend one pip.

Then you go to drawing the cards, then you may choose which of the item effects you want to use. This is true for all brown icons on that item, you can use each up to once each.

So you could choose between:
1) Using neither effect for 0 stars
2) Using the Knife for 1 star
3) Using the Bolas for 3 stars and discarding the Bolas from the item
4) Using both for 4 stars and discarding the Bolas from the item

Even if you choose to use neither, the pip stays spent.
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Paul Lodge
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I thought you couldn't 'part discard' an item?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Laardge11 wrote:
I thought you couldn't 'part discard' an item?

Except when it includes the words "discard this", or a card effect allows you to discard cards from your inventory with particular keywords, or when adding players in the game and you have items that have gone over their stacking limit.

So you can't just voluntarily discard part of an item, but something that tells you to discard a particular card within the item will split it up.
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Paul Lodge
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Thanks Jorgen, and thanks for the item usage clarification further above.

I was a little unsure, I mean clearly the rules say to lower the pip value before you draw cards, but when I watched Rahdo's play through (albeit this was the prototype), he drew his cards, and then if he didn't get the results he wanted, he then decided to use an item (apologies Mr Ham if I am wrong).

This seemed to contradict the rules that you summarised above. So if you are going to use an item, you lower the pip value before you draw for results regardless?

It does seem a bit strange though, that you would use an item's finite lifespan even if you drew enough results on the cards. Rahdo's way appears to be more intuitive.

 
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toeknee n
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Laardge11 wrote:
I was a little unsure, I mean clearly the rules say to lower the pip value before you draw cards, but when I watched Rahdo's play through (albeit this was the prototype), he drew his cards, and then if he didn't get the results he wanted, he then decided to use an item (apologies Mr Ham if I am wrong).


Are you talking about around timestamp 12:54 in Rahdo's video? There's a note in the subtitle that says "You have to decide to use your Item, or not, at step 1 of the action (so before drawing cards and knowing if you succeed or fail)."
 
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Paul Lodge
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Argh, that'll be it Docta; don't watch with the subtitles!

But even so, you decide to use the item before you know if you succeed without it or not??? Just seems a bit counter intuitive.

Oh well, thems the rules...
 
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Bram Kok
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Laardge11 wrote:
Argh, that'll be it Docta; don't watch with the subtitles!

But even so, you decide to use the item before you know if you succeed without it or not??? Just seems a bit counter intuitive.

Oh well, thems the rules...

Well if you go rockclimbing you better decide to use a rope before you start your climb, not when your hands start slipping.

EDIT: Also always watch Rahdo with Klingon subtitles, they are used to note goof-ups.
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Paul Lodge
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Yes, both good points Bram, thanks.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Just to be pedantic, it isn't choosing whether you actually use the effects of the item cards beforehand, it's choosing whether you want to use the item as a whole throughout the action. You don't actually have to choose whether to apply the effects of the cards that make up the item until you determine you need to (important for Bolas which are discarded when used).

Edit notes: I updated some terminology...
 
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Paul Lodge
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But if you have to reduce a pip to have access to it, isn't its lifespan reduced anyway, & technically you have used it even if you don't need its stars?
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Kristoffer
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Laardge11 wrote:
I was a little unsure, I mean clearly the rules say to lower the pip value before you draw cards, but when I watched Rahdo's play through (albeit this was the prototype), he drew his cards, and then if he didn't get the results he wanted, he then decided to use an item (apologies Mr Ham if I am wrong).
This seemed to contradict the rules that you summarised above. So if you are going to use an item, you lower the pip value before you draw for results regardless?
It does seem a bit strange though, that you would use an item's finite lifespan even if you drew enough results on the cards. Rahdo's way appears to be more intuitive.


This is just one of the many errors/misunderstandings in that video. There is a nice errata list in the description at YouTube, but if you watch the video embedded-linked from Serious Poulp's web site you never see that errata list. :/

Current errata list for the video:
Quote:
Welcome back! Let's continue with "Rahdo's Goofs"

If you find Goofs I didn't notice Please leave Timestamps :)

Thank You

12:00 The effect of the pole Item is “-1 card and/or +1 success”, allowing you to turn the balance action into a 2+/0, or 1+/1 if you perform the action together,

12:53 You have to decide if you use your Item, or not, at step 1 of the action (so before drawing cards and knowing if you succeed or fail),

13:20 Rahdo played Card 015 incorrectly! It's a permanent event which means it stays on the map, sitting between 003 and 017, and every time you want to travel between the two, you must once again face the challenge. This will explain Rahdo's confusion with how to return to 017 a bit later in the video!

19:11 Forgot to update the dice to a 6... it was on a 5 plus the 2 more from the new item on that stack it would be 5+2= 7 but the max number of uses is 6!

21:55 And that's what should have been done because that Pile that Jen is using to make the fire reduces the cards required by 1 AND/or gives 1 Success... if Richard were to help, the number of cards to be drawn would be reduced by 1, to 0 and the number of successes needed would increase by 1, to 1 and Jen already has that success so this could have been done without drawing any cards!

24:15 Rahdo should have discarded the Weaved Cord after making the fire (like it's written on the card)... despite having the 2 pip charge, these types of card that can produce fire are one shot items, they just add one extra charge to the slot they get put into

- source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPTpB0SXprU
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Kristoffer
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Clipper wrote:
Just to be pedantic, it isn't choosing whether you actually use the item beforehand, it's choosing whether you want access to the item throughout the action. You don't actually use it until you determine you need to (important for Bolas which are discarded when used).


I disagree. According to the rule book you first, in the Item phase, decide to "use" one or more items (=stacks of one or more item cards) in your inventory, by removing 1 pip, and then, in the Result phase, decide if you want to apply effects from the item(s) you decided to use earlier.

I don't have the bolas card in font of me now, but I think you would only discard that item card when you apply/use an effect from it.

There is a lot of confusion of items (=stacks of one or more item cards) and individual item cards (always called item cards in the rules AFAIR).

Laardge11 wrote:
But if you have to reduce a pip to have access to it, isn't its lifespan reduced anyway, & technically you have used it even if you don't need its stars?


Yes, that is correct. I don't think the last post by Clipper is in agreement with the rule book.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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We are actually in agreement, kribjo. I think the misunderstanding has come about because I was using some terminology incorrectly, in a way that I thought would make more people understand. I have updated my post to reflect what my actual intention was with terminology that does not contradict the rulebook.

What I wanted to highlight is that using an item(i.e., reducing the die value by 1) does not mean you are using the effects of all the cards that make up the item. Using the item actually means you can optionally apply each effect once each.

Thus, using an item that includes Bolas does not mean you need to discard the Bolas. You only discard Bolas if you also decide to use the effect to get the stars. You can also make the choice of whether to use the Bolas' effect after seeing what cards you draw.
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Kristoffer
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Clipper wrote:
We are actually in agreement, kribjo. I think the misunderstanding has come about because I was using some terminology incorrectly, in a way that I thought would make more people understand. I have updated my post to reflect what my actual intention was with terminology that does not contradict the rulebook.

What I wanted to highlight is that using an item(i.e., reducing the die value by 1) does not mean you are using the effects of all the cards that make up the item. Using the item actually means you can optionally apply each effect once each.

Thus, using an item that includes Bolas does not mean you need to discard the Bolas. You only discard Bolas if you also decide to use the effect to get the stars. You can also make the choice of whether to use the Bolas' effect after seeing what cards you draw.


Perfect agreement here!
 
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Randal Divinski
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kribjo wrote:
Clipper wrote:
We are actually in agreement, kribjo. I think the misunderstanding has come about because I was using some terminology incorrectly, in a way that I thought would make more people understand. I have updated my post to reflect what my actual intention was with terminology that does not contradict the rulebook.

What I wanted to highlight is that using an item(i.e., reducing the die value by 1) does not mean you are using the effects of all the cards that make up the item. Using the item actually means you can optionally apply each effect once each.

Thus, using an item that includes Bolas does not mean you need to discard the Bolas. You only discard Bolas if you also decide to use the effect to get the stars. You can also make the choice of whether to use the Bolas' effect after seeing what cards you draw.


Perfect agreement here!

Thanks to both of you. We understood that a) the pip had to be paid upfront, and b) that cost allows for using each relevant (brown) effect on the item once. But I believe we were also playing that we had to choose the specific effects before resolving the result draw -- that seems to be incorrect, so that we were making it harder on ourselves.

Follow up clarifying question: So that means you could "ready" an item (pay 1 pip) and then choose to use zero (brown) effects from it? (For example, readying a stack that includes the bolas in case you draw poorly -- but you success on the draw without needing the item.)
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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randiv wrote:
Follow up clarifying question: So that means you could "ready" an item (pay 1 pip) and then choose to use zero (brown) effects from it? (For example, readying a stack that includes the bolas in case you draw poorly -- but you success on the draw without needing the item.)


Yes. Using the terminology from the book, you are using the item, but end up applying none of its cards' effects.
 
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Ben Turner
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What about the scenario where a brown symbol shows up for two separate boxes on the same item (e.g. one item offers -2 cards for first aid and possibly another skill, and then in a totally separate box next to it, offers two stars and a 7 star for first aid)

Could you use both of these abilities form the single item card for one pip?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I had one thing here, then realised you're talking about the same card, so edited it. Yes, you can activate both applicable effects on the single card at the cost of 1 pip (and you can choose to get effects from other matching cards too in the same stack too).
 
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