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Subject: GOmove (aka: “Crazy Go”) with apologies and thanks. rss

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Joe Joyce
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Some time ago, I posted a question on how Go would be changed if 1 already-placed stone could move 1 intersection also in each player’s turn, either before or after the drop. Then I disappeared. My sincere apologies for that. I had a number of related and unrelated health and family issues hit me over the course of these recent months. Plus I had a commenter, Christian Freeling, message me to gently and privately chide me for disappearing and leaving things hanging. Considering this a just critique, I extended the disappearance just long enough to actually find out what happens.

I am not a Go player, and was unaware of Go variants before I started this (except 3 board sizes 9x9, 13x13, the standard 19x19, and something called Go-Moku,) so I floundered around online for a while until Luis Bolaños Mures pointed me to a player on igGames, PCM, who had the same idea. This allowed me to play a complete game against a good player, game score to follow. And more importantly, discuss the idea and game play experience. I also set up a kludgy GOmove game on the chessvariants website’s software which will allow you to follow an email game in progress between a variants-playing buddy, Uri Bruck, and me. (Or play one.) You may step through it 1 turn at a time online, unlike the game I played with PCM, for which there is only the score. These are the people I must thank for helping me get this game to where it is. I am deeply grateful for your help in all the myriad ways. So, thank you Christian. Thank you, Uri. Thank you, Luis. Thank you, PCM, whoever you may be. And even you, Moh, for pointing me to rec.games.go. I hope all of you here at the ‘Geek accept the game of GOmove as sufficient apology.

Finally, during my search to see who might play it with me and if it was anticipated, I got an offer to get the game played in the “Crazy Go” Tuesday tournament at next year’s American Go Congress by Terry Benson, the tournament director, for which I am also deeply grateful.

The topic at rec.games.go is here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.go/zCOVRQD...

The ongoing game is here: http://play.chessvariants.com/pbm/play.php?game=GOmove&log=j... (If you want/need a brief tutorial on how best to view this game, just ask, and I’ll show you.)

RULES:

Rule 0: All the standard rules of Go hold except as otherwise noted below.

Rule 1: Players may move 1 stone 1 point, moving only along a grid line to a neighboring point and stopping there, each turn. (No diagonal moves.) The move is optional each turn. The drop is not.

Rule 2: It makes a difference whether the move is made before or after the drop, so players may choose either each turn, for maximum flexibility. Captures made by the first action in a player’s turn open points for a second action by that player, who may occupy one as a legal second action.

Rule 3: The above rules force the standard no repetition rule in Go to be modified. The initial single stone capture must be made by a drop, not a move. If the immediate single stone recapture is still available on the next player’s turn, it may not be made, preserving the essence of the rule despite 1 or 2 potential actions changing the board before the “immediately following recapture.”

COMMENTS:

If there are any questions, comments, or suggestions about these rules, their completeness or clarity, please don’t hesitate to post them.

In play and discussion, plus looking at the scores, a few things about the game seem to be clear. The first is that while I haven’t seen or heard of any *exact* counterpart of GOmove, many must have designed this game and very similar ones. PCM, for example did get this exact idea of drop and move each turn, calling it Slither Go, but thought it should start out on a 13x13 board, and that doomed it.

The 13x13 is too small. As the game is played, a feature that appears is the contraction of a player’s territory with defensive moves, which generally take stones closer to other friendly stones. On the smaller size board, this contraction and the added need for defense caused the 2 sides to each become one large connected group rather quickly, collapsing the tactics and strategy of the game to kind of nibbling at the edges, destroying game play, and so being abandoned. (That makes me feel extremely lucky and wonder how many games have been missed by so little a thing.) This would strongly suggest the game would play well on larger boards, in the 21 – 25 points per board edge size range.

In the completed game, if I’ve counted correctly, 77 of the 100 turns had the optional move. That shows pretty clearly that the self-shrinking of territory on defense adds a new dimension to Go. The stones move 3/4th of the time to defend themselves or to attack the opponent, either in concert with the drop, or to play in a second area of the board. Stones can travel quite a bit if they move maybe 100 times in a game, so they can expand and contract territory considerably. In the current ongoing game, the ratio is roughly the same.

This very large percentage of move turns used also indicates that ideas to limit the movement in various ways would apparently tend to work to hobble the game.

Following is the score of my game with PCM:

1. GAME "Crazy Go"

2. Joe Joyce G7k
3. PCM E5w
4. Joe Joyce G5k
5. PCM E7w
6. Joe Joyce E8k G7- F7k
7. PCM E6w
8. Joe Joyce G7k F8k F7-
9. PCM E3w
10. Joe Joyce G3k
11. PCM F4w
12. Joe Joyce G5- G4k G6k
13. PCM D8w
14. Joe Joyce D9k
15. PCM E7- D7w C9w
16. Joe Joyce D10k
17. PCM E5- F5w C10w
18. Joe Joyce D12k
19. PCM P16w
20. Joe Joyce O15k
21. PCM P16- P15w O5w
22. Joe Joyce O7k O15- O14k
23. PCM F5- G5w H5w
24. Joe Joyce H4k H6k G6-
25. PCM O5- I5w N5w
26. Joe Joyce B10k D12- C12k
27. PCM P15- O15w C11w
28. Joe Joyce D11k B10- B11k
29. PCM D15w
30. Joe Joyce D13k O7- O6k
31. PCM F15w
32. Joe Joyce J6k O6- N6k
33. PCM J5w
34. Joe Joyce K6k H6- H7k
35. PCM N5- M5w K5w
36. Joe Joyce G3- F3k L6k
37. PCM E2w
38. Joe Joyce F14k L6- M6k
39. PCM D15- E15w G14w
40. Joe Joyce E14k D13- D14k
41. PCM D15w
42. Joe Joyce C15k B11- B12k
43. PCM C16w
44. Joe Joyce G13k O14- N14k
45. PCM J11w
46. Joe Joyce H13k
47. PCM H14w
48. Joe Joyce I13k M14k N14-
49. PCM J11- J10w L8w
50. Joe Joyce L7k I13- I14k
51. PCM I5- I6w I7w
52. Joe Joyce K7k J6- J7k
53. PCM M5- L5w I8w
54. Joe Joyce K8k M6- M7k
55. PCM L8- L9w I9w
56. Joe Joyce H9k L7- L8k
57. PCM O15- N15w I13w
58. Joe Joyce I12k M14- M13k
59. PCM J10- J11w J13w
60. Joe Joyce J12k M13- L13k
61. PCM J13- J14w I15w I14-
62. Joe Joyce J12- J13k I14k I13-
63. PCM L9- M9w B15w
64. Joe Joyce I14- I13k C14k
65. PCM J11- J10w P5w
66. Joe Joyce M8k I12- I11k
67. PCM J10- I10w P15w
68. Joe Joyce H10k L13- L12k
69. PCM M9- N9w P6w
70. Joe Joyce N8k M8- M9k
71. PCM N9- O9w O8w
72. Joe Joyce L6k M9- N9k
73. PCM M5w
74. Joe Joyce O10k
75. PCM P10w
76. Joe Joyce J10k L12- M12k
77. PCM I15- I14w O11w
78. Joe Joyce N10k M12- N12k
79. PCM N15- N14w N11w
80. Joe Joyce M11k N12- N13k
81. PCM P15- P14w M12w
82. Joe Joyce L12k N13- M13k
83. PCM N11- N12w N13w
84. Joe Joyce M14k G4- G3k
85. PCM J14- K14w M15w
86. Joe Joyce L13k J13- K13k
87. PCM P14- P15w L15w
88. Joe Joyce J13k M7- M6k
89. PCM K14- K15w N5w
90. Joe Joyce O7k N6- N7k
91. PCM P5- O5w P7w
92. Joe Joyce J13- J14k J15k
93. PCM I14- I15w J16w
94. Joe Joyce I13- I14k A15k
95. PCM K15- K16w B14w
96. Joe Joyce A14k B12- B13k
97. PCM O5- O6w B16w
98. Joe Joyce M11- N11k P12k
99. PCM P11w
100. Joe Joyce H4- H3k I3k
101. PCM K2w
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Maurizio De Leo
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I don't understand your modified KO rule.

Wouldn't it be simpler to say that it is illegal to have, at the end of a player's turn, a position which is the same as a previous position at the end of another turn ?
 
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Joe Joyce
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megamau wrote:
I don't understand your modified KO rule.

Wouldn't it be simpler to say that it is illegal to have, at the end of a player's turn, a position which is the same as a previous position at the end of another turn ?

Unfortunately, no, as far as I can see, but I don't really play Go so I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me, as I found that rule to be clumsy and annoying.. Since the sliding part of the player-turn can be before or after the drop, a player can drop and take, slide somewhere else, changing the state once. Then the other player could could slide a stone, changing the state a second time, then drop and take the opponent's stone. The drop and take could cycle endlessly, with only movement changing the aspect of the board each turn, and an endless ko battle going on during consecutive drops. Does that make sense?

 
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Maurizio De Leo
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I see.
Why not enforce superko at the half move point then ?

There are two actions, placing and moving. In each turn the player has to perform two different actions of his choice. It is forbidden to introduce at the end of any action a position which was already existing at the end of another action in the same game.
 
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Joe Joyce
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megamau wrote:
I see.
Why not enforce superko at the half move point then ?...

Okay, now I'm lost! I did say I don't really play Go. I believe that a ko is one cycle of player turns that creates a board repeat.It always involves just 1 stone captured on each side, the stones appearing and disappearing from the same 2 positions, which are adjacent. In Go, this means the 'you drop & capture; I drop & capture' cycle leaves all stones on the board in the same positions they were 2 turns ago. Is this right? Now, what the heck is superko? How does it operate here?
 
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