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Apologies to the people who voted in the previous poll, I've added an improved version of it which ism ore detailed.

Poll
Four player game. Each player has a unique hero. All players compete for resources by defeating monsters. You are part of an alliance (with a second player) and you've been eliminated from the main competition, but you do get to control certain played monsters so that you can favor your allied player to win the drops. At the end of the game when certain conditions are met or agreed upon by the surviving heroes, you get to control the forces that the challengers have to defeat where you can favor you ally. If you ally wins you get revived and you win the game (on the second place).

Elimination does not start right away. Conditions must be met.

Defeated players can interact with the live players under certain conditions.

Defeated players get to pick a side and actively participate in the important battles.

You are part of a team. You can help your team mates by controlling different units during specific battles.

A derivation from the "survivor show" rule, where the eliminated (in our case defeated) players get a chance to redeem themselves at the end by focusing on defeating the opposing heroes in a final battle.
I like the mechanic and I will definitely play such a game
Sounds interesting but I'd like to hear more about it
I will not play such a game
      10 answers
Poll created by HappyJohn



Hey guys!

I've been putting together for the past two years a Fantasy PvP oriented board game RPG. Being a passionate gamer myself I have tried my best to come up with a game that I would love playing. To give you a little more info, among a multitude of details about Gods, ancient stories, heroic quests and unique items, there are four major conflicting races :

Basharii, The Bloodlords
Elysar, Seraphic Citadel Knights
Takan, Barbaric Keep Warriors
Aedolas, The Magic Conclave

Each race has a number of Heroes that you can pick. How you build your hero it is entirely up to you

Back to the main question, I know Player Elimination is a dreaded subject and must be treated with respect but I also believe that if handled properly it can improve the experience while playing a well thought game. I'd love to hear your thoughts regarding my approach towards Player elimination.

Hope you've been having a nice day so far. I know I did!
 
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Russ Williams
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HappyJohn wrote:
Your opponent outsmarted you, outgunned you or he simply tricked you into fighting him and killed your hero. At this point you are dead, watching your friends having fun... YET YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. You can still interact with the live players and you get to influence certain battles.

Can I still win?

If yes, then I have not really been eliminated in the first place; it's not a game with player elimination.

If no, then what's my motive to want to keep playing? At best I'm by design a spoiler/kingmaker e.g. attacking the player who eliminated me to try to keep them from winning, even though that cannot change the fact that I lost... which doesn't sound like an appealing game to me, but it may be more appealing to more ameritrash type players.

PS: FWIW this is not a new concept; I have seen other games over the years with this concept.
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Mick Sullivan
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In what ways can I interact with the other players? Why am I able to do so?

Need to know something about the mechanism before I can develop any sort of opinion.
 
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Laura Creighton
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I want to be eliminated in this case, so from my point of view plain old player elimination is much better.
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maf man
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Your ether too close to your game or your trying to do too much with it. I think you need to take a big step back from your game. Try to spend some time thinking about player elimination as a mechanic. Plenty of other games have used player elimination in a positive manner its just a question of what you want to get out of it.

more focused on your game:
it comes off as condescending "yeah you were killed, but you can still play...here play with this". Your there for the amusement of the actual players, to keep the game fun for them. Your no longer able to get anything out of the fight.
Perhaps the most straight foreword answer to that problem is playing rounds and scoring points for each placement.
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Yaron Davidson
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If it's a team-play game, with 2 teams, and being eliminated removes your early role for a secondary, but entirely playable, one, then it's fine. There's a benefit/penalty to killing/dying by making the team of the not-really-eliminated player weaker (and all members dead is a lose condition).

You just need to balance how much you weaken the new role (if not by much, is more character respawn/replacement than anything feeling like elimination, if by too much then it becomes not interesting to play since there is no impact). But on the weaker (but not too weak) side, it can sort of be referred to as a type of elimination (though mostly thematically).

I don't know if it's a good idea (beyond just being technically wrong) to call a player eliminated if they're still in the game playing, though. It's confusing, will scare away people for the wrong reasons, and can needlessly annoy additional people for the right reasons.



Otherwise, basically +1 what Russ wrote.
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First of all thank you ALL for a quick and great feedback!!!


yarondav wrote:
If it's a team-play game, with 2 teams, and being eliminated removes your early role for a secondary, but entirely playable, one, then it's fine. There's a benefit/penalty to killing/dying by making the team of the not-really-eliminated player weaker (and all members dead is a lose condition).

Otherwise, basically +1 what Russ wrote.


Thanks a lot Yaron for your insight! Yes it is a teamplay we are talking about. I foolishly forgot to add that, but I am working on repairing my mistake.

I also kept a lot of info out and presented the raw idea to see how people would react to it.

SupaGerm wrote:
In what ways can I interact with the other players? Why am I able to do so?

Need to know something about the mechanism before I can develop any sort of opinion.


If you would read again the main post you will find the details there. I've modified it adding more details.

lacreighton wrote:
I want to be eliminated in this case, so from my point of view plain old player elimination is much better.


How about if you can help your team mate win the game?

mafman6 wrote:

more focused on your game:
it comes off as condescending "yeah you were killed, but you can still play...here play with this". Your there for the amusement of the actual players, to keep the game fun for them. Your no longer able to get anything out of the fight.


You most definitely can. You actively participate in the survival and probable victory of your alliance. My bad again for leaving out key details.

russ wrote:

Can I still win?

If yes, then I have not really been eliminated in the first place; it's not a game with player elimination.


That is why I called it player elimination v 2.0.


 
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Laura Creighton
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I don't like the sounds of this. Helping my teammate is all well and good, but I need there to be meaningful decisions for me to make and interesting thoughts to be had. If they still exist, then I don't think of myself as being eliminated from the game. I might not be eligible to become the champion, but the game could still have interest.

But sticking around until the end so that at the very end I could do something helpful -- well, it's all that time of waiting around that will grate. So if the game is fast, and I only have to wait 10 minutes or so, I suppose I could tough it out in the interest of good sportsmanship. If the time is any longer, you are going to catch me asking if it is ok for me to play games on my cell phone, or go paint miniatures, right now, as the game is over for me. Call me when you need me later ...

But I can play games on my cell phone at home -- so if I end up doing a lot of that at the place where we play games in the evening then the evening has been unsatisfactory for me. I'd rather be able to resign, or be eliminated, so I can go play a different game with different people at this time.
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If it is in fact a team vs team game (i.e. teams win, rather than an individual player winning, and if my team wins then I am happy, regardless of whether "my character" was killed), then sure, I'm happy to continue to fight on for my team, although as a player I have clearly not been "eliminated" then. So it indeed seems confusing/incorrect to call it "player elimination".

I am not "my character" if I can still do stuff as a player when "my character" is dead.

If my options are fewer or less powerful in this situation, that is just like in any game where my position has become weaker. I'm not eliminated.
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maf man
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well if its a team game its not really "player elimination" per se. This might be more of a player role kind of thing. Once your units are eliminated you keep fighting for your team just in a different way.

As a general opinion on the concept I think it has the ability to work. I think what will be key is the balance of roles, if killing one player's army means they come back even more powerful then it doesn't motivate what should be the strategic option. Yet it needs to be a pivotal enough role for me to be needed else I'm board because I'm just following orders of the main players, who could take my place.
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mafman6 wrote:


As a general opinion on the concept I think it has the ability to work. I think what will be key is the balance of roles, if killing one player's army means they come back even more powerful then it doesn't motivate what should be the strategic option. Yet it needs to be a pivotal enough role for me to be needed else I'm board because I'm just following orders of the main players, who could take my place.


The concept works fine. The playtests are really fun. I was not really convinced by how a newplayer would feel for the first time (without playing) when faced with this particular thing. More like what Yaron said earlier, a better way for me to put it in words when advertised.

This kind of elimination is really risky to be attempted in the game for both parties, plus there are conditions to be fulfilled in order for the elimination round to start. It's dangerous but it is bound to happen later in the game.

The comeback is not powerful but if played correctly it can overthrow an overpowered opponent. It's similar to chess where you have to play at least a few moves ahead.

lacreighton wrote:
Call me when you need me later ...

But I can play games on my cell phone at home -- so if I end up doing a lot of that at the place where we play games in the evening then the evening has been unsatisfactory for me.


Nobody wants you to sit and watch your friends playing a game and having fun, (not me the designer, not you the player) that's the whole point of this. That would be really dumb. Your role in the game continues, you can still influence the outcome of the game.

russ wrote:
If it is in fact a team vs team game (i.e. teams win, rather than an individual player winning, and if my team wins then I am happy, regardless of whether "my character" was killed), then sure, I'm happy to continue to fight on for my team, although as a player I have clearly not been "eliminated" then. So it indeed seems confusing/incorrect to call it "player elimination".

I am not "my character" if I can still do stuff as a player when "my character" is dead.

If my options are fewer or less powerful in this situation, that is just like in any game where my position has become weaker. I'm not eliminated.


Elimination is the word that bothers you. Don't worry I promise I will eliminate it Due to the fact that one of my game's rules is that alliances can be broken, to prevent other players ganging up on a single player at a time I've had this idea of the ghost player.

Great insight ...thank you all!!! kiss
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