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Subject: Easily Overlooked Rules and Other Clarifications rss

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Stephen Venters
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This is a quick list of rules that were easily overlooked the first few times I played Lisboa. Going back and looking, almost all of these rules are clearly stated in the rulebook, however I unknowningly got some of these wrong. If you have more, let me know and I'll add them.

Influence / Wigs
• If you are at 0 Influence Points then you can spend Wigs (1:1) for any remaining Influence Points you need for an action. You cannot move up the Influence track using Wigs, however.
• If you have 0 Ries, you can convert your Influence Points into cash (up to 6 Ries max) by moving down the Influence track. However, you must spend what you convert immediately.
• You only gain 1 Wig total each time your Influence reaches or would exceed 10 (even if you are already at 10). Thus, if your new total is 14 Influence, you stop at 10 Influence and only get 1 Wig (not 5).

Building
• When you Build a Store, you must pay for the Land (current Treasury price) as well as the remaining rubble costs (column and row). Further, if you Sponsored an Event to build the Store (played a Treasury card to the Royal Court for the Build a Store action), you will pay the current Treasury price twice (once for the right to sponsor the event and once for the land itself).
• When you Build a Store, you get the reward before you pay for the land and rubble. This means you can use the 5 Ries you receive from the Gold or Book/Tool locations to pay for the new Store. You also get the reward before you receive the Rubble Cube, meaning if the Rubble Cube would complete a set giving you enough warehouse space to store a product reward, you cannot take the product.
• Likewise, when you Open a Public Building (aka build a Public Building), you receive the cubes and benefit before building meaning if the benefit is to receive a plan, you can use that same plan to build the public building.
• When you Open a Public Building, you can "hire officials" if and only if you don't have enough Officials currently in Royal offices to meet the Plan's requirement. For each additional Official you need, pay the current Treasury price. You must exhaust all of your Officials first before hiring.
• When you Open a Public Building on the top row, one of the colors on the new Public Building must match the color of the street (i.e. column) it is covering.
• When you Open a Public Building, you receive the 2 Rubble Cubes before taking the benefit. Thus, if the Rubble Cubes complete a Set and the location's benefit is Take a Decree, you can immediately use the Complete Rubble Set cube to take a second Decree. Likewise, the completed set might increase your warehouse size enough to take another good if that is the location's benefit.
• You can always forfeit the benefit of a Store or Public Building. You might do this if you cannot perform the action but still want the location.

Nobles
• When you Visit a Noble, you must visit the same Noble for whose card you played to the Royal Court.
• When you Visit a Noble, you have to spend influence equal to number of opponents' Officers in that Noble's office plus the treasury modifier (which could be negative).
• When you Visit a Noble, you MAY take one of State Actions (i.e. minor actions) first, then you MUST take the Noble Action (i.e. main action) completely. If you cannot take the Noble Action completely, you cannot visit that Noble.
• When you Trade with the Nobles, you can take any 2 of the 6 State Actions (i.e. minor actions). You cannot take the same State Action twice. Nor can you take any of the Noble Actions (i.e. the 3 main actions).

Ships / Shipping
• You earn the Wigs from shipped goods immediately when they are flipped. However, you clear them from your ship at the start of your turn.
• If you upgrade a ship, you only play the difference in hull sizes. Also, any goods on the old ship remain in place as is.
• You cannot "upgrade" your ship to the same sized ship. Instead, you must discard the current ship card and build the new, same-sized ship in its place paying the full hull value. Or build the new, same-sized ship in a different slot in your tableau.
Errata: During the End of Period (mid-game) setup, step 2 has you replace the Red/Blue ships with the Purple/Brown ships. Then, in step 3 you can discard Nobles for their rewards. This implies you could build a Purple/Brown ship by discarding a Nobel with a "Build Ship" reward. However, this cannot be done (reference). The Purple/Brown ships are not available until after the End of Period steps are complete (including any discarded Nobles with a "Build Ship" reward on them) and the Second Period has begun. Note, if there are any Red/Blue ships left at End of Peroid, you can build one those with a discarded Noble.

Clergy Tiles
• During setup, each player is dealt 2 Clergy Tiles, keeping one and discarding the other back to the supply.
• You can never discard a Clergy Tile from your tableau/player board. The only time you remove a Clergy Tile from your tableau is when you are scoring Influence from the Cardinal's Score Influence spot. Participation in this scoring is optional. If you choose to score Influence then you must discard a Clergy Tile (if you have one) and score its Wigs.
• If you currently have 4 Clergy Tiles on your tableau/player board, you cannot take the Move Cardinal State Action under the King. However, you could build a building that covers a Move Cardinal action, but you would not be able to execute that action at all (not even just to move the Cardinal).
• The Cardinal's Score Influence resolves at the end of the current player's turn. If the Cardinal passes the scoring spot twice during the same player's turn, scoring still only occurs once.
• A clarification: You have currently 4 Clergy Tiles on your tableau. Another player visits the King and takes the Move the Cardinal State Action which ends him on to the Cardinal's Score Influence spot. Because the Score Influence (and forced tile discard) doesn't occur until the end current player's turn (after all Follows), you cannot Follow with a King's Favor to perform another Move the Cardinal State Action.
• The 2 Clergy tiles that count as blue/green completed plans (#14 and #15) during scoring not only count for a completed plan, but also 2 Officials each when scoring most Officials.

Scoring
• Before scoring your Reis (5:1), gain additional Reis based on your level on the Influence track.
• When scoring Most Public Building Plans, you count the number of Officials on each completed Plan, not the number of completed Plans.
• Some of the Decree cards state you must have Most of or Tied for Most of something in order to get the Wigs. If every player has 0 of something then, while technically you are tied for the most, you still don't get the Decree points. These cards require at least 1 of the item shown to qualify.
Errata: There is a typo in the rule book for scoring the Tools stores. The values printed on the board are the correct values: First = 6 Points / Second = 4 points / Third = 2 points

General
• Your warehouse capacity is also your tableau's card capacity. Thus, at the beginning of the game, you can only have a 2 cards total in your entire tableau (both top and bottom). Not until after your first rubble set is completed can you add a 3rd card.
• You cannot discard a card from your tableau whenever you want. You can only discard a card when playing a new one to your tableau and you are already at capacity.
• Once per turn, when a "take a decree" action earns you one or more Decrees (via Noble, Building, card, etc...) you may discard exactly 1 Completed Rubble cube sitting on the Minister to take exactly 1 additional Decree card. If you have 2 Completed Rubble cube available, you can still only use 1 to take 1 extra Decree; you'd have to take a second Decree action on a later turn to use the other cube.
• Public Buildings refresh immediately when opened, all other components refresh at the end of the current player's turn (and after all follows).
• If you receive a Rubble Cube but have no space of it on your tableau/player board, then you can discard it to the box.
• Once the end game conditions are met, you finish the current round. Then there is 1 more full round.

If you want at printed copy of this you can find it here (they should be in sync):
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/171968/lisboa-unofficial-...

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Nicola Bocchetta
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Re: Easily Overlooked Rules
I would add:

When you play a noble card in the royal court you have to spend influence equal to number of other players' officer in the noble office, plus the treasury modifier
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Michael Cabral
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Re: Easily Overlooked Rules
With Trade with the Nobles, you can do one or two of ANY of the 6 available state actions.
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Dan Freedman
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Re: Easily Overlooked Rules
This one has come up often towards the end. With one or more "take decree" actions you can use at most one rubble set marker to take an extra decree card. So an event that provides 2 take decree actions, will yield at most 3 decree cards.

Also, even though the rubble set markers sit on the minister (and not the 'take decree' action), you can use the marker to draw a card even if the "take decree" action was generated from something other than visiting the Minister (build/event/noble).
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Michael Cabral
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Re: Easily Overlooked Rules
Hopefully his thread gets upvoted a lot since this will answer a lot of people's questions.

You might want to make an entry for clergy tiles as there have been many threads created about it.

If you have 4 clergy tiles on your portfolio, you can't take the visit the Cardinal action. Store and Public Building placement bonuses are forfeited but you can still build on those locations.

Building: Order matters!

I saw that you already included an excellent example for Building Stores. Public buildings is in opposite order.

When you Open a Public Building you take the 2 rubble cubes first before gaining the placement bonus. (i.e., you take 2 rubble cubes to complete a set which increases your warehouse size to fit an extra good. Or you get the 2 rubble cubes first to complete a set and are now able to take 2 decrees because of the newly released and immediately used rubble market on the Marquis if placed on the Take a Decree bonus.)

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Y P
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Thank you for compiling this list! There are a lot of small things to keep track of in this game, and having them all in one place will help. Question:

Quote:
You can discard any card from your tableau at any time.
Is this from the rulebook, aid, or direct from the designer? The only mentions of discarding Portfolio cards I can find in the rulebook are when playing a card to your portfolio and needing to clear a spot to do so.
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Y P
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Faso74it wrote:
I would add:

When you play a noble card in the royal court you have to spend influence equal to number of other players' officer in the noble office, plus the treasury modifier

I wonder if, to keep the list from becoming an exhaustive list of all the rules in the game, it might make sense to omit items like this that are clearly indicated on the board?
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Vital Lacerda
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You do not have to discard any clergy tiles if you do not want to.
You cannot discard cards from your portfolio. You may replace them.

Quote:
I wonder if, to keep the list from becoming an exhaustive list of all the rules in the game, it might make sense to omit items like this that are clearly indicated on the board?

The majority of these sentences are also clearly written in the rulebook.
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Chris Spath
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newrev wrote:
The majority of these sentences are also clearly written in the rulebook.

This was my thought too. The player aid is also great!
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Mate Horvath
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ClimberStephen wrote:
• You can convert your Influence Points into cash (up to 6 Ries max) by moving down the Influence track.

But only if you need to spend money for something.
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Nathan Clegg
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ClimberStephen wrote:
The only time you remove a Clergy Tile from your tableau is when you are scoring Influence from the Cardinal's Score Influence spot. At this point, you must discard a Clergy Tile and score its Wigs, even if you don't want to.
What's your source for this? The rulebook clearly states that participation in church scoring is optional.
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Alan Castree
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moramis wrote:
ClimberStephen wrote:
The only time you remove a Clergy Tile from your tableau is when you are scoring Influence from the Cardinal's Score Influence spot. At this point, you must discard a Clergy Tile and score its Wigs, even if you don't want to.
What's your source for this? The rulebook clearly states that participation in church scoring is optional.

It’s in the rules but you’re right, it’s worded a little funny (and slightly inaccurate). Let me help clarify: The only time you can discard clergy tiles is when the cardinal scores influence on the clergy track. Discarding clergy tiles is optional, but if you want to gain influence from the cardinal you have to discard at least one clergy tile.
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Stephen Venters
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newrev wrote:
You do not have to discard any clergy tiles if you do not want to.
You cannot discard cards from your portfolio. You may replace them.
Updated! Thanks.

newrev wrote:
The majority of these sentences are also clearly written in the rulebook.

Agreed, and when I look for them I can find them. However, I thought I was playing by the correct rules only to find out later I wasn't. These are just some of those little things I and others missed during our first play throughs.
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Stephen Venters
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MentatYP wrote:
Quote:
You can discard any card from your tableau at any time.
Is this from the rulebook, aid, or direct from the designer? The only mentions of discarding Portfolio cards I can find in the rulebook are when playing a card to your portfolio and needing to clear a spot to do so.

This was incorrect and has been updated.


MentatYP wrote:

I wonder if, to keep the list from becoming an exhaustive list of all the rules in the game, it might make sense to omit items like this that are clearly indicated on the board?
Yea, I don't want to replace the rulebook or even create a player guide. These are just some of the little things I and others got wrong the first few times we played.
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Stephen Venters
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Metttyu wrote:
ClimberStephen wrote:
• You can convert your Influence Points into cash (up to 6 Ries max) by moving down the Influence track.

But only if you need to spend money for something.

Thanks! Corrected.
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newrev wrote:
You do not have to discard any clergy tiles if you do not want to.
You cannot discard cards from your portfolio. You may replace them.
Thanks for the clarification!

Quote:
Quote:
I wonder if, to keep the list from becoming an exhaustive list of all the rules in the game, it might make sense to omit items like this that are clearly indicated on the board?

The majority of these sentences are also clearly written in the rulebook.
Agreed--great rulebook! However, a lot of those little requirements, restrictions, and steps are easy to forget unless you've played the game a lot, which is I believe what this list is trying to alleviate.

My point was that some things are also indicated on the main board and/or player boards, and it would perhaps make sense to leave those off the list to keep it from bloating since there's a visual reminder for those points. After all, we're already looking at the board so the reminders are more easily accessible than rules in the rulebook that we have to actively look up. Just my $0.02. Very useful resource regardless.
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Ottevaere Wouter
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Gladly I found myself to have played wrongly only one of those easily forgotten rules, in my case: the Clergy Tile discarding and scoring. It appears to be you have to resolve this after the player ended his turn (therefor one has to lay down the Cardinal as a reminder!).
I resolved it at once - but that gave the benefit of discarding a fourth tile and replacing it at once, and then using it's benefit during the fulfilling of the player turn. And that's not possible if one does it correctly!
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Nicola Bocchetta
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MentatYP wrote:
My point was that some things are also indicated on the main board and/or player boards, and it would perhaps make sense to leave those off the list to keep it from bloating since there's a visual reminder for those points. After all, we're already looking at the board so the reminders are more easily accessible than rules in the rulebook that we have to actively look up. Just my $0.02. Very useful resource regardless.

I see your point, but in my experience the influence modifier for playing a noble card in the royal court is the most easily forgotten aspect. I have taught the game to 3 groups up to now, and one of them intepreted the iconography as "pay the influence value indicated on the card you played"!!!surprise
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Vital Lacerda
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Think this thematicaly and you won’t forget. All those people are wanting a visit with the Nobles. You need to use your influence for them to receive you before all others. Remember that those were the most important persons at that time. No influence no audience.
Most of those rules are easy to remember if you think on them in a thematicaly way. If you don’t, you will have problems.
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ClimberStephen wrote:

• When any type of action gives you a Decree (Noble, Building, card, etc...) you may discard exactly 1 Completed Rubble cube sitting on the Minister to take exactly 1 additional Decree card. If you have 2 Completed Rubble cube available, you can still only use 1 to take 1 extra Decree; you'd have to take a second Decree action to use the other cube.

Where does it say "any type of action"? When reading rules I can only see this option under "Take a Decree" (The Minister Action) in "Noble Action" section. When reading "Sponsor an event" - there is no clarification in this area ... so when playng an event card that alows me to take 2 decrees I wasn't sure if I could discard a rubble...
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Stephen Venters
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elayeth wrote:
ClimberStephen wrote:

• When any type of action gives you a Decree (Noble, Building, card, etc...) you may discard exactly 1 Completed Rubble cube sitting on the Minister to take exactly 1 additional Decree card. If you have 2 Completed Rubble cube available, you can still only use 1 to take 1 extra Decree; you'd have to take a second Decree action to use the other cube.

Where does it say "any type of action"? When reading rules I can only see this option under "Take a Decree" (The Minister Action) in "Noble Action" section. When reading "Sponsor an event" - there is no clarification in this area ... so when playng an event card that alows me to take 2 decrees I wasn't sure if I could discard a rubble...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26651684#26651684
 
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ClimberStephen wrote:
elayeth wrote:
ClimberStephen wrote:

• When any type of action gives you a Decree (Noble, Building, card, etc...) you may discard exactly 1 Completed Rubble cube sitting on the Minister to take exactly 1 additional Decree card. If you have 2 Completed Rubble cube available, you can still only use 1 to take 1 extra Decree; you'd have to take a second Decree action to use the other cube.

Where does it say "any type of action"? When reading rules I can only see this option under "Take a Decree" (The Minister Action) in "Noble Action" section. When reading "Sponsor an event" - there is no clarification in this area ... so when playng an event card that alows me to take 2 decrees I wasn't sure if I could discard a rubble...

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/26651684#26651684

I commented in that thread

It's not so much any action... it's just that there are many ways in which you can "take a decree." Whenever you take a decree (via a treasury card, going to the Marquis, building a shop, as a bonus for tucking a card in your portfolio), once per turn you can discard one of your Rubble Set markers to take an additional decree. So yes, if you sponsor an event that allows you to take two decrees, you can discard one of your Rubble Set markers for a third decree.

Remember that decrees are refilled at the end of your turn (after other players have followed).
 
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ClimberStephen wrote:

• You only gain 1 Wig total each time you gain Influence beyond 10.

I would change this wording to the following. "You only gain 1 Wig total each time your Influence reaches or would exceed 10."

As it is currently written, it sounds as if you do not gain a Wig for reaching 10 Influence exactly (but I believe I am correct that you do gain 1 Wig if the marker simply reaches 10).
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Joel Oakley
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ClimberStephen wrote:
• When you Build a Store, you get the benefit before you pay for the land and rubble. This means you can use the 5 Ries you receive from the Gold or Book/Tool locations to pay for the new Store.

The benefit is also gained before you take a Rubble cube. This means that you might not be able to gain the benefit of a good if taking it exceeds your warehouse capacity, even if you would complete a rubble set as a result of taking the Rubble cube (the opposite is true for Public Buildings as you pointed out).
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ACGalaga wrote:

It's not so much any action... it's just that there are many ways in which you can "take a decree."

I'd say that's splitting hairs since the only way to can get a decree is via a "take a decree" action.
 
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