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Michael Ross
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I am looking into acquiring a new board game for the holiday season and would be interested in your opinion. I have picked out 6 games in total and then coupled two together in a group. I would be interested in hearing your opinion on which is the 'better' game of the group comparatively speaking. I am planning to only pick out one game and am having trouble deciding. Just for note, I normally only play with just my wife, so if it played well with just two that would be an added bonus but not required. So, what do you think? Our favorites have been Five Tribes, Orleans, Great Western Trail. Which of the grouping would we enjoy better and why? (obviously I probably couldn't really go wrong with any of them)

Concordia
Viticulture (have played before, thought it was slightly boring but didn't play with Tuscany which it seems makes a big difference)


Voyages of Marco Polo
Kingsburg


Gallerist
Lisboa

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
 
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Jim Cavallari
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I've not played either of the games in pair #2, but I enjoy Concordia from the 1st pair, and Gallerist from the 3rd pair of games listed.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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I've played them all. Your groups are basically from least to most complex. Not sure if that was intentional. Each of the games has polls which tell you what people think about the game at each player count, so I'll leave that to you. But in general (I don't play 2p much), I would say:
Great (medium): Concordia, Voyages of Marco Polo
Great (heavy): Gallerist, Lisboa
Meh: Kingsburg
Bad: Viticulture (based on Essential Edition)
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Michael Ross
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curtc wrote:
I've played them all. Your groups are basically from least to most complex. Not sure if that was intentional. Each of the games has polls which tell you what people think about the game at each player count, so I'll leave that to you. But in general (I don't play 2p much), I would say:
Great (medium): Concordia, Voyages of Marco Polo
Great (heavy): Gallerist, Lisboa
Meh: Kingsburg
Bad: Viticulture (based on Essential Edition)


I tried to organize them into some sort of similar weights and gameplay. Even though, a particular weight isn’t a concern. I am pretty new to the site so only have seen the ‘best player count’ in the heading so have yet to discover the polls. Thanks to you both for thoughts. I am torn. Concordia and Lisboa look great, but the theme doesn’t look as enticing as the others. Gallerist looks great, but read that 2 players isn’t ideal.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Cmid21 wrote:
I am torn. Concordia and Lisboa look great, but the theme doesn’t look as enticing as the others.

Pssst. Theme is over-rated. ninja

Cmid21 wrote:
Gallerist looks great, but read that 2 players isn’t ideal.

Yeah, I could see that.
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Michael Ross
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curtc wrote:
Cmid21 wrote:
I am torn. Concordia and Lisboa look great, but the theme doesn’t look as enticing as the others.

Pssst. Theme is over-rated. ninja

Cmid21 wrote:
Gallerist looks great, but read that 2 players isn’t ideal.

Yeah, I could see that.


Hey I’m with you. But if I say to the wife “want to collect a whole bunch of resources or rebuild the city of Lisbon tonight?” Enevitably I will hear:

“Why don’t you go to the grocery store or rebuild me some kitchen cabinets if you’re bored”
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Chris Mcpherson
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Very easy for me.

Concordia
Voyages of Marco Polo
The Gallerist

But, if I could adjust this list...

Concordia
Terraforming Mars
T'Zolkin

Edit: I'm so glad my wife doesn't care what the games are about. She just wants to know how you score points and what triggers the end of the game, hehe.
 
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Oliver Dienz
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If you like Great Western Trail take also a look at Lewis & Clark which plays well with two.

Another game that plays well pretty much at any player count is Keyflower.

And often recommended for two players is The Castles of Burgundy in case you have not played it yet.
 
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Village Idiot
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Concordia - fantastic game! Plays great with 2, has simple rules but deep gameplay. All around top notch game.

Viticulture - Haven't played this one, but it would be tough to be better than Concordia.




Voyages of Marco Polo - This is right up there with Concordia, and is my absolute favorite Dice Worker Placement game (of which I have many). Also plays great with 2. Anything Simone Luciani is involved with is going to be a winner (Grand Austria Hotel, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, Lorenzo il Magnifico, etc.)

Kingsburg - This was my first Dice Worker Placement game, and it holds a dear spot in my heart. It's certainly lighter than Marco Polo, and in fact, I've had good luck with this as an introduction into euro games. If you decide to get this, wait for the second edition coming out soon, as that will include the expansion that makes this game go from good to great (and an additional new expansion module). It plays pretty good with 2, but better with 3 or 4.




Gallerist - This is the only Vital Lacerda game I own, and I really enjoy it. As is true with most of his games, it's a decently heavy euro with really good theme-integration. It plays ok with 2, but doesn't see much table time due to how long it takes. There are also a ton of rules to remember, creating a pretty big learning curve...But all the rules make perfect sense thematically, so it's not so bad after playing a few rounds.

Lisboa - Haven't played this, but it looks great! The only thing keeping me from buying it right now is that it will likely be just as long as rules-dense as Gallerist, meaning it also won't see much table time. For the cost, I want a game that will get played more than once a year.


In summary:
I would definitely choose Concordia or Marco Polo. Concordia is simpler to learn, but if you love Great Western Trail, Marco Polo will be easy to learn by comparison.


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Ken
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curtc wrote:
Bad: Viticulture (based on Essential Edition)


Bad? I've only played it once but it seemed okay, and from the reviews many like it. Viticulture Essentials I mean.
 
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Michael Ross
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Re4isnumber1 wrote:


Edit: I'm so glad my wife doesn't care what the games are about. She just wants to know how you score points and what triggers the end of the game, hehe.


In the interest of fairness, this was just added for comedic effect. She is an alright lady. 7/10 would marry again.
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Michael Ross
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wreadsiii wrote:
Concordia - fantastic game! Plays great with 2, has simple rules but deep gameplay. All around top notch game.

Viticulture - Haven't played this one, but it would be tough to be better than Concordia.




Voyages of Marco Polo - This is right up there with Concordia, and is my absolute favorite Dice Worker Placement game (of which I have many). Also plays great with 2. Anything Simone Luciani is involved with is going to be a winner (Grand Austria Hotel, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, Lorenzo il Magnifico, etc.)

Kingsburg - This was my first Dice Worker Placement game, and it holds a dear spot in my heart. It's certainly lighter than Marco Polo, and in fact, I've had good luck with this as an introduction into euro games. If you decide to get this, wait for the second edition coming out soon, as that will include the expansion that makes this game go from good to great (and an additional new expansion module). It plays pretty good with 2, but better with 3 or 4.




Gallerist - This is the only Vital Lacerda game I own, and I really enjoy it. As is true with most of his games, it's a decently heavy euro with really good theme-integration. It plays ok with 2, but doesn't see much table time due to how long it takes. There are also a ton of rules to remember, creating a pretty big learning curve...But all the rules make perfect sense thematically, so it's not so bad after playing a few rounds.

Lisboa - Haven't played this, but it looks great! The only thing keeping me from buying it right now is that it will likely be just as long as rules-dense as Gallerist, meaning it also won't see much table time. For the cost, I want a game that will get played more than once a year.


In summary:
I would definitely choose Concordia or Marco Polo. Concordia is simpler to learn, but if you love Great Western Trail, Marco Polo will be easy to learn by comparison.




Thanks, much appreciated for your thoughts! I was initially leaning toward Concordia and Marco Polo. Maybe a little more toward Marco Polo. It seems to be more similar to our favorite games in that there are so many ways to collect points and ways to win. (Why Five Tribes with the expansions is our favorite game. You can collect goods, points from tiles, artifacts, coins, meeples, gods etc.) Is that a fair assessment? Can you think of any other games that I might have overlooked that are similar?
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Village Idiot
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Cmid21 wrote:
wreadsiii wrote:
Concordia - fantastic game! Plays great with 2, has simple rules but deep gameplay. All around top notch game.

Viticulture - Haven't played this one, but it would be tough to be better than Concordia.




Voyages of Marco Polo - This is right up there with Concordia, and is my absolute favorite Dice Worker Placement game (of which I have many). Also plays great with 2. Anything Simone Luciani is involved with is going to be a winner (Grand Austria Hotel, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, Lorenzo il Magnifico, etc.)

Kingsburg - This was my first Dice Worker Placement game, and it holds a dear spot in my heart. It's certainly lighter than Marco Polo, and in fact, I've had good luck with this as an introduction into euro games. If you decide to get this, wait for the second edition coming out soon, as that will include the expansion that makes this game go from good to great (and an additional new expansion module). It plays pretty good with 2, but better with 3 or 4.




Gallerist - This is the only Vital Lacerda game I own, and I really enjoy it. As is true with most of his games, it's a decently heavy euro with really good theme-integration. It plays ok with 2, but doesn't see much table time due to how long it takes. There are also a ton of rules to remember, creating a pretty big learning curve...But all the rules make perfect sense thematically, so it's not so bad after playing a few rounds.

Lisboa - Haven't played this, but it looks great! The only thing keeping me from buying it right now is that it will likely be just as long as rules-dense as Gallerist, meaning it also won't see much table time. For the cost, I want a game that will get played more than once a year.


In summary:
I would definitely choose Concordia or Marco Polo. Concordia is simpler to learn, but if you love Great Western Trail, Marco Polo will be easy to learn by comparison.




Thanks, much appreciated for your thoughts! I was initially leaning toward Concordia and Marco Polo. Maybe a little more toward Marco Polo. It seems to be more similar to our favorite games in that there are so many ways to collect points and ways to win. (Why Five Tribes with the expansions is our favorite game. You can collect goods, points from tiles, artifacts, coins, meeples, gods etc.) Is that a fair assessment? Can you think of any other games that I might have overlooked that are similar?


Definitely a fair assessment. Your tastes seem to align pretty close to mine. I also love games that have multiple paths to victory.

Some designers that do this very well:

Stefan Feld - Master of Point-Salad Games (Designer of Castles of Burgundy that I see you rate highly)
The Oracle of Delphi, Macao, Trajan, Bora Bora

Simone Luciani - Co-Designed Marco Polo
Grand Austria Hotel, Lorenzo il Magnifico, Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar, Council of 4

Alexander Pfister - Designed Great Western Trail
Mombasa, Isle of Skye: From Chieftain to King (has a price setting mechanism similar to Castles of Mad King Ludwig that I see you like)

Matthias Cramer -
Kraftwagen, Lancaster, Rococo


Other excellent games with multiple paths to victory:
Bruxelles 1893
Yokohama
Burano
First Class: All Aboard the Orient Express!
Village
Ulm
La Granja
Troyes
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Michael Ross
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Wow great list, thank you!

Looks like I'll have some more games to look into now. If I may (take up a little more of your time), could I ask what is your favorite game listed, or not, with multiple paths to victory and many different ways to score points?
 
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Craig B
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Depending on when it comes out, you should probably keep an eye on:

Altiplano
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Chris Mcpherson
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wreadsiii wrote:

Matthias Cramer -
Kraftwagen, Lancaster, Rococo


WTF! How do you mention Matthias Cramer and not list Glen More, it's a travesty, hehe!
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Ken at Sunrise wrote:
curtc wrote:
Bad: Viticulture (based on Essential Edition)


Bad? I've only played it once but it seemed okay, and from the reviews many like it. Viticulture Essentials I mean.

Bad was being generous. Among my table of Euro players (like the games listed), everyone agreed it was awful. There's no accounting for taste.
 
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Village Idiot
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Re4isnumber1 wrote:
wreadsiii wrote:

Matthias Cramer -
Kraftwagen, Lancaster, Rococo


WTF! How do you mention Matthias Cramer and not list Glen More, it's a travesty, hehe!


Oh I agree it's his best, but I tried not to list any games that I know are long out of print and very hard to find.
 
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Village Idiot
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Cmid21 wrote:
Wow great list, thank you!

Looks like I'll have some more games to look into now. If I may (take up a little more of your time), could I ask what is your favorite game listed, or not, with multiple paths to victory and many different ways to score points?


No problem!

I own about 600 games and have played considerably more than that.
My current Top 5 games of all time:

1. Bruxelles 1893
2. The Oracle of Delphi
3. Macao
4. Grand Austria Hotel
5. Great Western Trail

However, if I were to choose which game I believe best exemplifies the concept of multiple paths to victory (specifically as a "point salad" game), I would say Trajan.
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