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Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: Prof Fire Modifier Question? rss

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Josh
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Yes and no. The full rule is:
Quote:
These three modifiers are cumulative, although a unit’s
Proficient FP can never be increased above its Normal FP
because of these three modifiers.

Once modified for any of the applicable proficient modifiers
above, the other modifiers from the FP column of the PAC are
applied. (This would be the terrain of the target hex, moving
in the open, halved for long range, etc.)


So, first you take the proficient FP and add any of the three modifiers listed (op fire marker, CP, and/or adjacent), but these cannot bring FP to above normal.

Now you take that FP value and then modify it further based on terrain and situations listed on the player aid card (PAC) and this is not limited.

The part you got wrong is there is a +3 for being adjacent on the PAC, so the number you would roll against is 11.

On page 17 of the rules v2.1 there is an example that has some of this. Look at the bottom of the second column of text on that page.

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Josh
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Also, note that that section of the rules is specifically for when using Prof FP during Op Fire. When using it during Assault Fire, only the CP increase is used.
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Josh
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There is, but you already included it:

1 starting Prof FP
+1 CP
+1 Op marker
+1 adj
= 4 modified Prof FP

+3 adj
+4 moving open

= 11 modified FP
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Bruno Savaresse
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joshaubry wrote:
Also, note that that section of the rules is specifically for when using Prof FP during Op Fire. When using it during Assault Fire, only the CP increase is used.

Josh,
For me the rules aren't written the way you think.
The Fire Proficiency modifiers are used when assault fire or opportunity fire.
The PAC reflects this.
 
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Niko
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BrunoSava wrote:
joshaubry wrote:
Also, note that that section of the rules is specifically for when using Prof FP during Op Fire. When using it during Assault Fire, only the CP increase is used.

Josh,
For me the rules aren't written the way you think.
The Fire Proficiency modifiers are used when assault fire or opportunity fire.
The PAC reflects this.
You won't have units marked with an opportunity fire counter using assault fire though;
When you mark a unit op fire you cannot later move it and use assault fire with it anymore since the only thing the unit can do now is op fire. I don't think the rules outright say "op fire counter doesn't apply to assault fire", but it just isn't possible to have it apply.
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Josh
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BrunoSava wrote:
joshaubry wrote:
Also, note that that section of the rules is specifically for when using Prof FP during Op Fire. When using it during Assault Fire, only the CP increase is used.

Josh,
For me the rules aren't written the way you think.
The Fire Proficiency modifiers are used when assault fire or opportunity fire.
The PAC reflects this.

This is how I read the rules:
Rules v2.1: 5.1 ASSAULT FIRE wrote:
An Unused Squad (or MG WT in a Halftrack) can Assault Fire
after moving into a hex, but it is then marked 'Used' and its
move is over. When the fire attack is resolved, the unit’s
Proficient FP is used. The player may spend a CP to raise this
FP by 1 (but not greater than the Normal FP).
The unit is then
marked as Used. Weapons Teams (WTs) may NOT Assault
Fire unless mounted in a Halftrack (see 20.0).

Note that the only increase mentioned is for CP.

Then we look specifically in the section on op fire:
Rules v2.1: 9.0 OPPORTUNITY FIRE (OP FIRE) wrote:
The Proficient FP may be increased by one for each of the
following cases:
• If the target unit is adjacent.
• If the firing unit is marked as Op Fire.
• The player spends a CP
These three modifiers are cumulative, although a unit’s
Proficient FP can never be increased above its Normal FP
because of these three modifiers.

And that is where it lists three increases available--in the section of rules specific to op firing.

Now let's look at how it is explained in the example:
Rules v2.1: 99.0 EXTENDED EXAMPLE OF PLAY, p. 17, Operations Phase Russians Again wrote:
The Russian unit continues to G5 and the German unit may
again Final Op Fire (since the Russian is adjacent). This time
the German passes its MC. Proficient FP of 5 is increased to 6
because the unit is adjacent.
The FP for the attack is then 6 -1
(Wood Building) +3 (adjacent) -2 (Final Op Fire) = 6. ... He
instead Assault fires at the adjacent German. Prof. FP of 3, -2
(Stone Building) +3 (adjacent) = 4.

Note the op firing German gets the =1 for adj while the assault firing Russian does not. They both get the normal +3 adj.

Finally, let's look at the PAC:
Player Aid Card v2.1: INFANTRY PROFICIENT FIREPOWER wrote:
• Assault Fire, Op Fire, & Final Op Fire use Prof. Firepower.
• Each of these increases the Proficient Firepower by 1 (but
not greater than the Normal Firepower):
   • Op Firing at an Adjacent Unit
   • Op Firing while marked as Op Fire
   • Spending one (& only one) allowed Command Point

Note that the first two increases available specify "Op Firing".
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Bruno Savaresse
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I was wrong.
Thank you very much Josh for such an exhaustive post.
Sometimes we (me at least) read what you want to read and not what is really written.
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Josh
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BrunoSava wrote:
I was wrong.
Thank you very much Josh for such an exhaustive post.
Sometimes we (me at least) read what you want to read and not what is really written.

No worries ... the only reason I knew where all that stuff was is because I had just looked it up to make sure I was answering the original question correctly. I had been playing it wrong also, not adding the extra +1 for adj in addition to the normal +3, so I noticed that and wanted to dbl check everything... Just last weekend I got stomped by my son and I think I must have rolled a 2 about 5 times when a 1 was needed for suppression during FOF... I might have survived..
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Bruno Savaresse
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joshaubry wrote:
BrunoSava wrote:
I was wrong.
Thank you very much Josh for such an exhaustive post.
Sometimes we (me at least) read what you want to read and not what is really written.

No worries ... the only reason I knew where all that stuff was is because I had just looked it up to make sure I was answering the original question correctly. I had been playing it wrong also, not adding the extra +1 for adj in addition to the normal +3, so I noticed that and wanted to dbl check everything... Just last weekend I got stomped by my son and I think I must have rolled a 2 about 5 times when a 1 was needed for suppression during FOF... I might have survived..

I also play with my son, and we often make mistakes with the infantry fire modifiers. Apart from this case, it is mostly omission in the heat of the action.
It is not impossible that we respect the rule at the beginning when we started with the first edition of Ghost Panzer. Playing discontinuously it is not easy to plunge back into the rules. But we never regret our mistakes; a kind of fate of war.
 
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