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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Legolas and Blade of Gondolin rss

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Andy Corbett
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Hi, player 1’s turn to attack and he is engaged with an Orc Enemy. He has no cards to exhaust to attack, but he calls on player 2 who has Legolas with a Blade of Gondolin. Player 2 exhausts Legolas to attack the Orc and kill it with his 3+1 attack.

Now, has Legolas “participated in an attack that destroys an enemy...” to give me two progress on the quest AND “..attacked and destroyed an enemy” therefore giving another progress on the quest?

I ask because I’m not sure of the difference between “particpated in an attack” and “attacked” - maybe because it was player 1’s turn, Legolas only particpated, but didn’t attack?

Thanks for reading
 
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Nigel Harris
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Hi Andy,

I might not fully answer your question here, but in your example, player 1 doesn't have anyone that can be exhausted to make an attack, so they will pass and then player 2 will initiate an attack, using legolas. That's okay to target the enemy engaged with player 1 as legolas has ranged.

If player 1 had someone available to attack, then the attack would occur on player 1's turn, and at that time legolas could participate in that attack.

I've always assumed that a character attacking on their turn would be regarded as having participated in an attack (sounds reasonable?)

Hope this helps
Nige
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Osprey
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Errg...Argh..
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Whether you helped someone in an attack or if you're the sole attacker you are still participating in an attack.
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Andy Corbett
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Thanks guys, I think my confusion is on Blade of Gondolin which specifically says “After attached hero attacks...”, which sounds like it means exactly the same as “after Legolas participates in an attack...”, so (and thanks for the correction Nigel) when Legolas, on his turn, has attacked and destroyed player 1’s engaged enemy using Ranged, he has both Attacked and Particpated in an Attack and therefore both his and Blade of Gondolin’s Responses are valid?
 
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Doc H
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That's how I see it. +3 progress total placed for the kill.
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Andy Corbett
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Doc_H wrote:
That's how I see it. +3 progress total placed for the kill.


Glad you agree! Later in the game I also put a Blade of Gondolin on Gimli. So when he and Legolas teamed up, that gave me a huge five progress on the quest. Basically won me the Escape from Dol Guldur quest, 2 handed using one Core set only! I think I’ve had about ten attempts now, and this was the first win against this quest, I’m very happy!
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Nigel Harris
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I do think that although this game can be crushingly brutal sometimes almost always, when you do land a victory like that it's very satisfying. Congrats on your victory!
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Jim . K
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Quick related question! When either Legolas or 'Blades' get to place progress, do they both sidetrack any current active location to place them directly onto the quest? I'm pretty sure it all goes on the active location if there is one ... just clarifying
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Legolas and blade (and similar effects) have their attempt to place progress on the current quest buffered by the active location. So progress would be placed on the location first, then if there is leftover progress it would go on the quest.
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Jim . K
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dalestephenson wrote:
Legolas and blade (and similar effects) have their attempt to place progress on the current quest buffered by the active location. So progress would be placed on the location first, then if there is leftover progress it would go on the quest.


Thanks, that's what I thought ..

On a connected note, if as a result of adding progress to an active location outside of the Questing phase, (say in this case with Legolas and his Blades card, used during the combat phase say), what happens if you clear both the 'buffer' active location (placing progress on the quest card), AND also clear the quest card ?

Do you still progress the quest card as usual... I'm not sure how this is handled outside of the Quest phase basically ..thanks
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Yes, you progress on the quest card whenever the conditions for completing are met, not just in the quest phase. If Legolas' ability causes it to be completed in the combat phase, then the quest card changes in the combat phase.
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Jim . K
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dalestephenson wrote:
Yes, you progress on the quest card whenever the conditions for completing are met, not just in the quest phase. If Legolas' ability causes it to be completed in the combat phase, then the quest card changes in the combat phase.


Thank you. I think there are some cards/responses that might create a slightly different issue, if fir example they specifically say to add progress to 'the active location' (as opposed to Legolas's instruction to add to the quest card), which might be where I get confused... If a card/response allows you to place progress on the active location (or any location I guess) can surplus progress then be carried over, in that case?
 
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Chris McDonald
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Corbetta wrote:
Thanks guys, I think my confusion is on Blade of Gondolin which specifically says “After attached hero attacks...”, which sounds like it means exactly the same as “after Legolas participates in an attack...”, so (and thanks for the correction Nigel) when Legolas, on his turn, has attacked and destroyed player 1’s engaged enemy using Ranged, he has both Attacked and Particpated in an Attack and therefore both his and Blade of Gondolin’s Responses are valid?


Yeah, the text templating on this game has always been a bit sloppy. e.g. "after an enemy engages you" and "after you engage an enemy" have both been used on cards and mean exactly the same thing.
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Juan Valdez
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cfmcdonald wrote:
Yeah, the text templating on this game has always been a bit sloppy. e.g. "after an enemy engages you" and "after you engage an enemy" have both been used on cards and mean exactly the same thing.


Yes, I have noticed this and found it tremendously irritating as the plain English meanings are not at all the same.

If I were attempting to teach someone the game, and they insisted on playing the literal meanings, I would oblige them. Because I agree with them.

Having both of these word orders mean the same thing is a lost opportunity for more nuanced game play. The designers, awesome as they are, dropped the ball on this one.

Side note: This game is brilliant. In my opinion the designers are brilliant, and I hope the everything about the game and the game's community continues to grow and mature. So while I am most definitely being critical, it is with the hope that perhaps we'll see such nuance appear in the future. Or that the offending (offensive to me at least) card text be written correctly, such that the subject, the verb, and the object perform exactly as the designer intends.

BTW, I went all in, only lacking Celebrimbor's AP now. Money where mouth is, etc.
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Dale Stephenson
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JimBGG wrote:
dalestephenson wrote:
Yes, you progress on the quest card whenever the conditions for completing are met, not just in the quest phase. If Legolas' ability causes it to be completed in the combat phase, then the quest card changes in the combat phase.


Thank you. I think there are some cards/responses that might create a slightly different issue, if fir example they specifically say to add progress to 'the active location' (as opposed to Legolas's instruction to add to the quest card), which might be where I get confused... If a card/response allows you to place progress on the active location (or any location I guess) can surplus progress then be carried over, in that case?


It cannot -- while the active location buffers progress on the current quest, the reverse is not true.
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