Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
4 Posts

Age of Napoleon» Forums » Variants

Subject: Surrender phase sequence rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matteo Lusignoli
Italy
flag msg tools
Rule 14.0 starts by specifying that
"Surrender conditions must be checked in the following order:
all minor countries, Spain, Preußen, Österreich, Russia and France"

This allows an annoying (for the opponent) and not realistic tactic: when a country is being conquered, and you have nothing better to do with your cards, make a last use of that country's corps (if any is alive) to conquer as much minor countries as possible.
The conquering corps will vanish when their country surrenders, but the flags they have placed (minor countries surrender being checked first) will remain there until the other player uses cards and corps (or diplomacy) to take back those minor countries!
(the problem comes from the fact that only French and English control flags are used in this game, for simplicity, whoever is the real conqueror of a country)

This can be avoided by applying the following simple variant:

SURRENDER PHASE:
Surrender conditions must be checked twice in the following order:
all minor countries, Spain, Preußen, Österreich, Russia and France.
The first check is to remove any corps (as temporary losses) for countries which are in surrender conditions.
The second check is to apply other surrender consequences (updating flags and countries diplomatic alignments accordingly), but only for countries which are still in surrender conditions (i.e. their surrender condition is not due to occupation by corps of a country which was itself in surrender condition in the same turn).
In the rare occasion that corps are removed for a country which would not surrender in the end, they will be available for reinforcements in the next turn (chaotic situation determined by the quasi-surrender of their country).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Renaud Verlaque
United States
Shelter Island Heights
New York
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
Re: Surrender phase sequence variant/fixing
Interesting. Why, for example, should Portugal conquered by Spain while Spain is an ally of France's not become and remain a French ally even as Spain is turned neutral occupied by the Coalition? It can be rationalized by a change of government enforced by Spanish troops before they're called back home. Now your view might be that as soon as the Spanish invaders is gone from Portugal, the Portuguese would rise in revolt and overthrow the government (king, whatever) put in place by the Spaniards. And certainly it could happen, but that's what an Insurrection in a later turn might simulate. Also, in the scenario described above, shame on the Coalition player for letting Portugal fall to Spanish armies. If he can't prevent it then there's no reason why it shouldn't happen, especially since the game provides for the possibility of insurrection (or "liberation" by Coalition armies) at a later date. So in summary I'm fine with the rules as they are.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matteo Lusignoli
Italy
flag msg tools
Re: Surrender phase sequence variant/fixing
Thank-you Renaud for your answer.
In fact the main "problem" (in game terms) arise in central Europe, from my playing experience.
When the Coalition player cannot prevent the conquest of Austria or Prussia (or even prefer them to be conquered, ref. Radetsky/Stein topic), he often has to possibility to conquer several French minor allies with Austrian or Prussian corps that would be removed in the Surrender phase.
To prevent this the French player should always put and keep garrison corps in his exposed minor countries, which may not be easy to do, or should spend energies (cards and phases) to re-conquer them after the conquest of Austria/Prussia.
I just think that this is not realistic, and could be avoided by the variant proposed above.
In other games about Napoleonic Wars, when a country is conquered (Portugal by Spain in your example, German or Italian minors by Austria or Prussia in my example) you put the flag of the conquering power, not of the "side" to which this power was allied.
When Spain/Austria/Prussia is conquered, in some games it loses (and the conquering side gains) any minors it may have conquered before, in other games the winning side may ask these minors as territorial concessions; in any case they would not remain controlled by the original ally of the conquered power.

I appreciate the simplicity of your game, where only English, French or Neutral flags are placed, so I would not introduce other flags to track (and other rules to manage) minor countries conquered by other powers.
If these conquests are done in a turn when the conquering power remains allied to France or England, I have no problem to consider them equal to French or English conquests. But if they are essentially contemporaneous to the conquest of the conquering power, I think it is not nice in game terms and not realistic either, and can be avoided (for those who agree) by using the above variant, without side effects on the game mechanics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Renaud Verlaque
United States
Shelter Island Heights
New York
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
Re: Surrender phase sequence variant/fixing
Well, this is a 2-player game, not a multiplayer game so it's about France vs. the Coalition. Again, I submit that a) there's nothing intrinsically unrealistic in these minors being flipped and staying flipped even when the major that flipped them is neutralized and b) it's up to you as the power fighting that major to prevent these kinds of "games". So I would not change anything, but you are obviously free to.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.