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Subject: Radio counters and radio communication (newbie question) rss

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Paul Cockburn
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In my first mission each HQ has a handheld radio (SCR536) as an asset. I have placed these counters on the relevant asset boxes. Does that mean each squad in the platoon has a radio for the purposes of communication? Or does a squad moving into a new territory need to take a radio counter with them to maintain communication with the HQ?

Also, am I right in thinking that there is LOS between any two adjacent cards so that SCR536 radio communication with an adjacent squad is only a problem if the squad (or HQ) is under cover?
 
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AGUSTI BARRIO RUIZ
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Hi. No, only the Platoon HQ leader has the radio. Squads from that platoon can only move by verbal orders. If you move an assault team alone to another card it cannot receive future orders by radio, only by general initiative or until the HQ leader moves to the same card.

When the HQ leader moves, you have to leave a wire counter behind.


Yes, there is LOS between two adjacent cards but you cannot issue verbal orders to the LATs or squads you move alone. If you have a HQ leader and a squad or LAT in the same card, you can issue verbal orders to that one only if ALL are not under cover or under the same cover. If HQ leader and the other unit are in differents covers, then you cannot issue verbal orders. In this case you can:

1) Move the HQ leader to the same cover (is a MOVEMENT action -2).

2) Use initiative order to the LAT/Squad to move to the HQ leader cover.




 
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Jerry Tresman
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"When the HQ leader moves, you have to leave a wire counter behind"

only for phones not for radios , however it is sometimes better to take phones and lines as the the ww2 handheld radios can be more restrictive e.g. LOS and cover blocking their signal.

"A. Early Handheld Radios (SCR536) Because of its limited broadcast strength, the SCR-536 allows radio communication only within Line of Sight (as if Daylight, and ignoring smoke). The SCR-536 does not work from under a Cover marker."

"4.3.1 Visual-Verbal In order to be in Visual-Verbal communication, both units must be on the same card, be unpinned, and eithera) both are under the same Cover marker orb) neither one is under a Cover marker."

Remember Cease Fire and Shift Fire ignores cover restrictions on a card , the soldiers pass it on.

Good practice is to to use and plan for the use of visual verbal between Platoon HQ and his platoon don't get to separated especially when using SCR-536 as cover is your friend and its not a good idea to stay in the open so you can use the radio.
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AGUSTI BARRIO RUIZ
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Starman54 wrote:
"When the HQ leader moves, you have to leave a wire counter behind"

only for phones not for radios , however it is sometimes better to take phones and lines as the the ww2 handheld radios can be more restrictive e.g. LOS and cover blocking their signal.

"A. Early Handheld Radios (SCR536) Because of its limited broadcast strength, the SCR-536 allows radio communication only within Line of Sight (as if Daylight, and ignoring smoke). The SCR-536 does not work from under a Cover marker."

"4.3.1 Visual-Verbal In order to be in Visual-Verbal communication, both units must be on the same card, be unpinned, and eithera) both are under the same Cover marker orb) neither one is under a Cover marker."

Remember Cease Fire and Shift Fire ignores cover restrictions on a card , the soldiers pass it on.

Good practice is to to use and plan for the use of visual verbal between Platoon HQ and his platoon don't get to separated especially when using SCR-536 as cover is your friend and its not a good idea to stay in the open so you can use the radio.


Yep, sorry. Wire counters only for phones, not radios.
 
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Stephen Brophy
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Starman54 wrote:
"When the HQ leader moves, you have to leave a wire counter behind"

only for phones not for radios , however it is sometimes better to take phones and lines as the the ww2 handheld radios can be more restrictive e.g. LOS and cover blocking their signal.

"A. Early Handheld Radios (SCR536) Because of its limited broadcast strength, the SCR-536 allows radio communication only within Line of Sight (as if Daylight, and ignoring smoke). The SCR-536 does not work from under a Cover marker."

"4.3.1 Visual-Verbal In order to be in Visual-Verbal communication, both units must be on the same card, be unpinned, and eithera) both are under the same Cover marker orb) neither one is under a Cover marker."

Remember Cease Fire and Shift Fire ignores cover restrictions on a card , the soldiers pass it on.

Good practice is to to use and plan for the use of visual verbal between Platoon HQ and his platoon don't get to separated especially when using SCR-536 as cover is your friend and its not a good idea to stay in the open so you can use the radio.


I'm a bit confused over this. On the one hand, under "A" it says that radio communication is by line of sight, implying that if there is a LOS to the next card, then you can communicate, but then under 4.3.1 it says you have to be on the same card. What am I missing?
 
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
I'm a bit confused over this. On the one hand, under "A" it says that radio communication is by line of sight, implying that if there is a LOS to the next card, then you can communicate, but then under 4.3.1 it says you have to be on the same card. What am I missing?


"A" is referring to communication with the SCR536 Radio.

4.3.1, on the other hand, is referring to Visual-Verbal communication.

Two completely different means of being in communication. One is a radio, the other is via hand signals, yelling, etc.

Best,
Ricky
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Chris Seidler
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So the only way to give e an order to a separated squad, fire or assault team is the general initiative? Holy shit, did that wrong all the time and nonetheless the Nazis are kicking my ass... ok ok, definitely need to think about my tactics...
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Chrisback79 wrote:
So the only way to give e an order to a separated squad, fire or assault team is the general initiative? Holy shit, did that wrong all the time and nonetheless the Nazis are kicking my ass... ok ok, definitely need to think about my tactics...


Sorry I should have made it clears I was posting rules quotes from two methods of communication.


Separating elements of a platoon is not a good option if its for fire or assault, unless you risk assess the possible outcomes and support is handy (main platoon).

or the Co. Sgt. higher is leading them.
 
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John
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Haplo_Patryn wrote:


When the HQ leader moves, you have to leave a wire counter behind.



For the new folks, you do not HAVE to leave the line behind. You could have a case where moving to another card brings you adjacent to the CO HQ, so you would then be in communication with him. You could then save the phone line for another move. Since the game went form 6 phone lines to 4, it does make things more challenging.

John
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John
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Chrisback79 wrote:
So the only way to give e an order to a separated squad, fire or assault team is the general initiative? Holy shit, did that wrong all the time and nonetheless the Nazis are kicking my ass... ok ok, definitely need to think about my tactics...


I usually detach an assault team from a squad in the first couple of turns and use them to scout ahead. They have the point and are quite often fodder. They are very useful as when they are on the same card as an Enemy, they tie them up so to speak and give you the opportunity to move more/better units into position to clean them up.

Ben has some great notes on tactics in the briefing booklet.

John
 
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Paul Cockburn
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Thanks for all these comments, which do clarify some things, but still leave me confused about others.

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".

a) I can therefore put one "CO TAC Net SCR536" counter in the asset box of each of the platoons. Is that right?

b) I do not have the option of using phones because these are not given in the Assets or Unassigned Assets and there is no mention of them in the Mission Details (pages 4-5). Is that right?

c) The CO HQ and the CO XO can give commands to any of the PLT HQ because each of the two HQ possess a radio counter - providing there is LOS between the two and neither is under cover. Is that right?

d) If a squad is separated from the PLT HQ by moving to an adjacent card, then this squad can no longer receive commands from the PLT HQ, despite having LOS and not being under cover, because it doesn't have a radio counter. Is that right?

e) A specific example: My PLT HQ has 2 commands. I wish to use one command to send a squad forward to the next card and a second command to tell it to seek cover. I can do the first of these via verbal/visual signals whilst on the same card, but I can't do the second because the squad is now out of communication. Is that right?

f) Radios are only used between HQs. Communication with a squad can only take place when its PLT HQ is on the same card (and neither are under cover, or both are under the same cover.) Therefore commands from PLT HQ to non-HQ units can only be given to those on the same card (and neither are under cover, or both are under the same cover.) Is that right?

g) A squad separated from its PLT HQ cannot act except in one of the following circumstances:
during the General Initiative Impulse
when ordered by the CO HQ, CO XO or CO 1stSgt on the same card
when receiving orders from a runner
in response to pre-arranged smoke or flare signals
Is that right?
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Andreas Krüger
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a) Sure, you can assign the radios to the platoons and the asset box is the place to hold it.
b) not sure
c) Note that the XO can give commands to the PLT HQ but not activate it due to the order of activation. So, you could e.g. send the PLT HQ to cover but not its squads.
d+e) Right. Better hope for a good draw in general initiative.
f) Right. I think you could pass a radio to a squad an use it, but I am not sure. Seems a bit awkward anyway.
g) Correct.
 
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John
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mathmethman wrote:
Thanks for all these comments, which do clarify some things, but still leave me confused about others.

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


b) I do not have the option of using phones because these are not given in the Assets or Unassigned Assets and there is no mention of them in the Mission Details (pages 4-5). Is that right?




I believe for ALL mission you can use the telephones. As far as the radios go 4.3.5 says "The Mission Instructions dictate the available types of radios."

John
 
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John
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Remember that phones are an asset, so the PLT HQ could give the radio and any phone lines to a squad if you want the squad to be the one in communication provided all the other rules are met. The squad could receive commands via the phone, but could not activate anyone. the PLT HQ would then be subject to General Initiative unless on the same card as the CO HQ or other staff.

I had one instance of just that. I had the CO HQ move onto the same card as the 2nd PLT HQ. The 2nd PLT HQ gave the phone to the second squad and the second squad moved forward to another card. On the next turn, the 2nd PLT HQ was activated by being in visual verbal communications with the CO HQ, and the CO HQ passed commands to spot onto the squad via the phone it now possessed.

John
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Jerry Tresman
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jboy3294 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:
Thanks for all these comments, which do clarify some things, but still leave me confused about others.

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


b) I do not have the option of using phones because these are not given in the Assets or Unassigned Assets and there is no mention of them in the Mission Details (pages 4-5). Is that right?




I believe for ALL mission you can use the telephones. As far as the radios go 4.3.5 says "The Mission Instructions dictate the available types of radios."

John


Not wanting to spoil your belief system and it would make communication a non isuue but it has always been a clear rule Radio or Phone not both.:-


"4.3.3 NetworksTo facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios. "
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Starman54 wrote:
jboy3294 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:
Thanks for all these comments, which do clarify some things, but still leave me confused about others.

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


b) I do not have the option of using phones because these are not given in the Assets or Unassigned Assets and there is no mention of them in the Mission Details (pages 4-5). Is that right?




I believe for ALL mission you can use the telephones. As far as the radios go 4.3.5 says "The Mission Instructions dictate the available types of radios."

John


Not wanting to spoil your belief system and it would make communication a non isuue but it has always been a clear rule Radio or Phone not both.:-


"4.3.3 NetworksTo facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios. "


Totally agree radios are an asset and do not forget you can re assign them to different networks. So a Fire net network radio can be reassigned when missions expended or even temporarily changed. The early radios came with spare crystals the later ones with easy channel switching as did the big man pack radios.
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Robert Fabbro
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mathmethman wrote:

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


Hi Paul,

Not entirely relevant to the subject at hand, but I noticed that you mention here that the 60mm Mortars are only available on Mission 4.

The mortars and other weapons (bazookas etc) are always available to your Company. the "Mission" Column on page 2 of the briefing booklet actually should say "Ammunition per Mission" as per the current errata document.

Cheers!

Rob
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Paul Cockburn
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Blacksmith61 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


Hi Paul,

Not entirely relevant to the subject at hand, but I noticed that you mention here that the 60mm Mortars are only available on Mission 4.

The mortars and other weapons (bazookas etc) are always available to your Company. the "Mission" Column on page 2 of the briefing booklet actually should say "Ammunition per Mission" as per the current errata document.

Cheers!

Rob


Actually, your comment about the errata is more relevant than you know. On checking the errata quite a few things have come become clear. For example "Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio" means that phones are indeed an option in the Normandy campaign. Also the note against the Phone Lines asset, "Only if Field Phones are chosen" answers something else which had puzzled me - why are phone lines an asset but not the actual phones? Suddenly that whole Order of Battle table makes a lot more sense. Thank you.

But it does lead me to another question or two.
Are the field phone counters limited to one per platoon (the same as the radios)?
If so, then presumably this doesn't change the problems of squads separated from their PLT HQ. The field phone, like the radios, are basically to provide communication between the CO HQ and the PLT HQ. Communication with separated squads is still limited to runners and smoke signals. Is that right?
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Jerry Tresman
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mathmethman wrote:
Blacksmith61 wrote:
mathmethman wrote:

I am attempting Mission 1 (Trevieres Offensive) in the Normandy Campaign.
The order of battle table on page 2 lists SCR536* Co TAC against the CO HQ, CO XO and each of the three platoons. (Also against the 60mm Mortar Section, which according to the table is only relevant/available on Mission 4.) The asterisk is explained as "Maximum of 1 per platoon".


Hi Paul,

Not entirely relevant to the subject at hand, but I noticed that you mention here that the 60mm Mortars are only available on Mission 4.

The mortars and other weapons (bazookas etc) are always available to your Company. the "Mission" Column on page 2 of the briefing booklet actually should say "Ammunition per Mission" as per the current errata document.

Cheers!

Rob


Actually, your comment about the errata is more relevant than you know. On checking the errata quite a few things have come become clear. For example "Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio" means that phones are indeed an option in the Normandy campaign. Also the note against the Phone Lines asset, "Only if Field Phones are chosen" answers something else which had puzzled me - why are phone lines an asset but not the actual phones? Suddenly that whole Order of Battle table makes a lot more sense. Thank you.

But it does lead me to another question or two.
Are the field phone counters limited to one per platoon (the same as the radios)?
If so, then presumably this doesn't change the problems of squads separated from their PLT HQ. The field phone, like the radios, are basically to provide communication between the CO HQ and the PLT HQ. Communication with separated squads is still limited to runners and smoke signals. Is that right?


Yes but don't forget field phones are not limited to a specific network , who ever is accompanying someone with a phone can access any network , treat it as visual verbal comma on the same card as accompanying.
 
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Joris
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mathmethman wrote:
Communication with separated squads is still limited to runners and smoke signals.

I don't think runners can be used to activate separated squads. The rules say they can activate a PLT HQ or Staff only.
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Robert Fabbro
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YosT wrote:
mathmethman wrote:
Communication with separated squads is still limited to runners and smoke signals.

I don't think runners can be used to activate separated squads. The rules say they can activate a PLT HQ or Staff only.


Hi Joris,

Yes, I am pretty sure you are right. Runners are for HQs or Staff only. Spread out squads will need to rely on pyrotechnics or personal initiative.

In my current game, my spread out third platoon just lost its Platoon Leader when I moved him to a card I thought was safe (Curse you, Shift Fire)! I then moved the XO over to try to fix things and he got nailed!

I may now need to rely on pyros since I have drawn very low Initiative draws for the last couple of turns (0 and 1 if I recall).

....And now the enemy has launched a counterattack!

What an amazing game.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Blacksmith61 wrote:
YosT wrote:
mathmethman wrote:
Communication with separated squads is still limited to runners and smoke signals.

I don't think runners can be used to activate separated squads. The rules say they can activate a PLT HQ or Staff only.


Hi Joris,

Yes, I am pretty sure you are right. Runners are for HQs or Staff only. Spread out squads will need to rely on pyrotechnics or personal initiative.

In my current game, my spread out third platoon just lost its Platoon Leader when I moved him to a card I thought was safe (Curse you, Shift Fire)! I then moved the XO over to try to fix things and he got nailed!

I may now need to rely on pyros since I have drawn very low Initiative draws for the last couple of turns (0 and 1 if I recall).

....And now the enemy has launched a counterattack!

What an amazing game.


It is that.


Definitely need to Reconstitute a PLT HQ ASAP. Spreading your platooon out when heavily engaged and throwing another command unit into a LoF is not going to have a good outcome apart from a fast learning curve.

A platoon is an integrated unit and I would only separate it between cards if they have overlapping friendly fire on potential enemy lines of fire. Your MG's and a squad should form a fire team from a secure location. Sometimes using multiple platoons to support and cover each other.


 
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Riccardo Rinaldi
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Hello,
I have another question related to the use of radios, so hopefully you won't mind if I post along -
Supposing I am using radios, what is required of a CO HQ that leaves the staging area to be in communication with the BTN HQ? Do they need to have a LOS to the staging area? To somewhere else? I must confess I am a bit lost.

Otherwise (playing with phones), this is one of the greatest games I have ever played.

Thanks for any insights
Riccardo
 
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Michael R

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Riccardo Rinaldi wrote:
Supposing I am using radios, what is required of a CO HQ that leaves the staging area to be in communication with the BTN HQ? Do they need to have a LOS to the staging area? To somewhere else? I must confess I am a bit lost.


The mission instruction will tell you what kind of radio to assign to the CO HQ for BTN communication. Most of the time, this will be a SCR300. According to the rules (4.3.5 B.), "[t]hese can communicate anywhere on the map with other radios in the same network, unless the Mission Instructions indicate otherwise." (page 24 in the 2nd edition rule book).
 
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Riccardo Rinaldi
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Thanks Michael. But will the CO HQ be able to communicate with the battalion HQ, which is supposed to be off map most of the time?
 
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