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A Feast for Odin» Forums » Variants

Subject: No dice variant rss

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Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Poland
Warsaw
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Instead of rolling dice, settle for the following results:

3 for Hunting and Setting traps,
4 for Whaling,
6 for Raiding,
9 for Pillaging.

These numbers are as close as it gets to the expected values of rolling the dice 3 times with the aim of rolling the best result (or at least I believe them to be).

What you get from this: less frustration from unlucky roll streaks (these really bug me, especially if they happen at the beginning of the game).

The cost is that you lose all the thrill and fun from rolling the dice, all the meaningful decisions associated with it. Also, I believe, the your score variance will be lower, so you probably shouldn't count on beating your personal best playing this way (no super lucky streaks either).

Otherwise I don't think this variant should have a significant effect on your average score, but if anyone can provide insight as to why and how it does, I'll gladly give it a read.

It works well for me. Imho in no way can it replace or improve the original ideas in the game, but should work well from time to time, when you just feel like you want a game where random factors have much less significance than normally.
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Dan Silverman
United States
Waltham
Massachusetts
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It also makes going for the english crown a whole lot harder.
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David Christopher
United States
North Tonawanda
New York
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cezarr wrote:


The cost is that you lose all the thrill and fun from rolling the dice, all the meaningful decisions associated with it.



Exactly why I enjoy rolling the dice. There's enough spaces in the game that you do x to get y...I like that the exciting parts of Viking life (pillaging, raiding, etc) are made exciting in the game because of the dice rolls.

It also shows the struggle of those same tasks when you roll poorly..say a failed raid for example.

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FiNeX
Italy
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After some plays of this game I've started to skip all dice related actions because i always rolled the worse numbers. Now my strategy is trying to win without dice... it's quite difficult
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Ryan Feathers
United States
Madison
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This seems a reasonable variant if you'd like to remove the variance of the dice. The tough part here is that you've changed the value of these spaces as well. While you are correct that you've moved to the closest value you could, as far as I can calculate, the true average is 2.53 for hunting/trapping. Rouding up to 3 means you're making this space a decent bit worse.

Furthermore, the odds of getting a 1 or 2 are pretty good--in fact they're a bit over 50 percent of the time. So usually when I hunt/trap I make sure to bring 2 weapons/wood, and if I have to pay more than that I often take the failure and try again next time. So this does lose a bit of the strategy and decision making in the game. I suppose the upshot is that you can plan exactly how much you need for all these actions now.

Overall go for it if you like. I just wanted to speak to the effects that I think this will have and let others decide how they'd like to play.

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Krzysztof Kowalczyk
Poland
Warsaw
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Ranior wrote:
the true average is 2.53 for hunting/trapping. Rouding up to 3 means you're making this space a decent bit worse.


If that's the average then I'd agree 3 would be too high. However, I think it's 2,94. 😃

I'll post the numbers in the strategy forum in the thread that discusses the odds of rolling a certain number.
 
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Ryan Feathers
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cezarr wrote:
Ranior wrote:
the true average is 2.53 for hunting/trapping. Rouding up to 3 means you're making this space a decent bit worse.


If that's the average then I'd agree 3 would be too high. However, I think it's 2,94. 😃

I'll post the numbers in the strategy forum in the thread that discusses the odds of rolling a certain number.


Ah, gotcha. I wasn't on the same page as you the first time around.

Your number is more accurate for reality. I was using the theoretical number for an omniscient player who knew the results of all three rolls and could take the best one. But of course in reality if a normal human rolled a 2 on the first roll, they would likely keep it, and so never know if they would actually roll a 1 on the third roll or whatever.

Given that you do have to choose to roll again or not, I'd agree that 3 is right about the average. Of course this goes back into what I was saying above though, a decent amount of the decision making is removed from this variant, as well as any "thrill" over the success or failure of the roll.

Ultimately though this variant does seem to get the values pretty close to what would be expected so there's not a big difference there. It's just this variant does remove the opportunity for that guy with only 2 wood to go hunting and succeed 57% of the time, instead he now is met with certain failure. Personally that means I have little interest in this variant, but given that I enjoy the dice aspect of this game, this variant was never aimed for me anyhow. I hope you find enjoyment in it, and I now agree that it does closely match the actual values for those spaces.
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Gernot Köpke
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Biebesheim am Rhein
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Well, I can disclose, that game developing needs sometimes special rules to make games more compareable. For this many FFO-gametestings used exactly this rule. Great that you did come up now to the same idea and the same results (Uwe studied statistics).
Now add the other rule: Professions count always 3 VP at the end of game and their text gets ignored. Then it is a game with as less luck as possible and strategies and results can be compared much better. Well, the game feels then a bit castrated, but for chessplayer-types it can be still fun too.
On the other hand, Uwe's in my eyes genius idea to give dices to the game with compensation effects in case of failure for preventing to plan all from the start to the end, we should not underestimate. I think it was a not unimportant key to the sucess of the game.

Please compare to a closely same discussion here
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1754699/less-dice-variant
where I explain a card instead of dice variant.
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