Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Time of Legends: Joan of Arc» Forums » General

Subject: Pascal Bernard's Previous Work rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Anon

Washington
msg tools
mbmb
Anyone else concerned that Pascal's average work rating is around 6? His highest rating is 7.27. How much should past work be used to indicate future success?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff M
United States
Lafayette
California
flag msg tools
mb
Yes.
I am following this KS campaign closely.
There look to be a couple of folks posting on the BGG who are pushing the game strongly. This actually has raised my level of suspicion.
I'm hoping to see some critical game reviews from other reviewers not affiliated with the game/"game fans".
So far, I like the minis (they don't bowl me over with the limited size of most of the minis- the "painted" minis on the KS page don't look to be painted, but computer generated). The movement with cards/cubes looks intriguing, but would like to see it in action with the rest of the game mechanics.
I've been burned enough with strongly hyped KS campaigns with lots of minis to be wary.
So far I haven't gotten a good feel for how battle works, how it fits in with the overall mechanics of the game, how the game mechanics work with the theme, how well written the stories are.


8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J P
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowden025 wrote:
Yes.
I am following this KS campaign closely.
There look to be a couple of folks posting on the BGG who are pushing the game strongly. This actually has raised my level of suspicion.
I'm hoping to see some critical game reviews from other reviewers not affiliated with the game/"game fans".


Unfortunately, this won't happen until the game is finished and delivered.

Quote:

So far, I like the minis (they don't bowl me over with the limited size of most of the minis- the "painted" minis on the KS page don't look to be painted, but computer generated).



You can see the painted minis in quite a few videos already, so you can see they're not CGI.

Quote:

The movement with cards/cubes looks intriguing, but would like to see it in action with the rest of the game mechanics.
I've been burned enough with strongly hyped KS campaigns with lots of minis to be wary.
So far I haven't gotten a good feel for how battle works, how it fits in with the overall mechanics of the game, how the game mechanics work with the theme, how well written the stories are.



Like the videos with the painted minis, there are already several videos showing how the game plays. For English speakers, most of them are from Beasts of War. They just put a third one up yesterday in which you can see some of the mechanics for Angels and flying units.

I'm not saying the game is great. I have no idea if it will be. I'm just saying that most of the info you're looking for (besides critical reviews) is already out there.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff M
United States
Lafayette
California
flag msg tools
mb
DancingFool wrote:
...(besides critical reviews) ...


This is really what I am waiting for.

I've seen the videos demonstrating "how the game plays", and the only ones I am familiar with (on the KS page and the BGG forum) look at movement/cube usage/turn order/cards. No tie in to how the battles work, overall game flow.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Francois Dupont
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowden025 wrote:
Yes.
I am following this KS campaign closely.
There look to be a couple of folks posting on the BGG who are pushing the game strongly. This actually has raised my level of suspicion.
I'm hoping to see some critical game reviews from other reviewers not affiliated with the game/"game fans".
So far, I like the minis (they don't bowl me over with the limited size of most of the minis- the "painted" minis on the KS page don't look to be painted, but computer generated). The movement with cards/cubes looks intriguing, but would like to see it in action with the rest of the game mechanics.
I've been burned enough with strongly hyped KS campaigns with lots of minis to be wary.
So far I haven't gotten a good feel for how battle works, how it fits in with the overall mechanics of the game, how the game mechanics work with the theme, how well written the stories are.



First of all, let me say that I am one of the so-called "game fans", not only because of the awesome miniatures but also the deep strategy layers. I've been following the campaign for a while now, and I have absolute faith in Mythic Games to follow through with their promises. You seem ill-informed and yet are overly critical of the game but I digress (as you say, bad experiences in the past may have burnt you as is common on KS!).

There are no critical game reviews yet and there never will be for KSes, so I'm not sure I understand your question...the games are not out yet, they're at the prototype phase! And I'm not talking about paid previews from Rahdo or UndeadViking here, these are not objective. Sam Healey from Dice Tower (I would call him an objective third party) seemed to appreciate his 2 playthroughs since he's put JoA #1 must plays at Essen and MB #6 in the same video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgcf5XRUlgc&t=2s

And yes, the "painted" minis are actually painted, the painter, Seb Lavigne, is actually THAT good. And if you don't believe me, just watch the KS Lives with Leo where he shows the dragon and many other minis, it's not CGI.
https://www.facebook.com/sebastien.lavigne.39?fref=gs&hc_ref...

Moreover, there are 3 games (and more coming) played on Beast of War to actually show you how the game plays with cubes/activations, so you can make up your own mind about if you like how it plays or not. But this is not an unknown, as you may think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUykyt_BLMY

And to answer OP's interrogation, I think Pascal Bernard and his team are really pushing new boundaries and from the aforementionned videos, I don't know if it's fair to judge them on past work. Mythic Games has done Mythic Battles: Pantheon, which will soon be delivred too. Their communication is still top notch and on time and I have no reason to doubt their ability to deliver good, complete games that have been thoroughly playtested.

14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheseArmsRSnakes wrote:
Anyone else concerned that Pascal's average work rating is around 6?


Nope. BGG ratings are rubbish. Publishers make changes to a game out of the control of the designer. And, if anyone dares so much as to make a game for a child audience, watch out for those low ratings. I would poke around and see how many of these games (like Conan) combine resource cubes with combat.

That being said, if the *style* of his games doesn't match your play style, that may be an indicator that "this game is not right for you". That's why I don't play most Eric Lang games or Eurogame designers. Their game designs don't match my play style. From an initial scan of Pascal's work, I'm seeing more European-ish games than, say, 15mm historical miniature wargames (TMP definition of wargames, not BGG).

The campaign still hasn't shown a rulebook (?) but has three weeks to go. And, as said, game videos are available to watch.
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Back 5
msg tools
mbmbmb
I think watching multiple gameplay videos is a much better way to judge a game versus reading a rule book. You get to see the flow, the player interactions and ease of interpreting and implementing rules.

A game may seem fun on paper but totally crumble when put on the table.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah the vids are worth a view and are not cringy to watch a game play out at all. You'll notice there's a lot going on with this game as far as little rulebits of info goes. Many times the players 'forget' they could do something or some little rule they forgot to implement and
Léonidas Vesperini often quips in with strategies and rules that they should know about to play.

Seems like a big rule memory intensive game possibly with analysis paralysis plaguing players who just aren't good at keeping track of all the possibilities available along with all the rules needed to be known. Nothing compared to some games I've played though.
I still don't really understand the unit cards and all the multitude of icons on them or what they mean. I have very little grasp of how mythic powers works or what and how many powers you have at your disposal during play. These things have been used in the vids but I don't really understad it all. The use of experience also only gets glossed over. A rulebook would help.

What I do get is that there is a massive amount of randomness, with the river cards and dice rolls, but it seems to work well resulting in games that will let players strategize and maneuver their troops in their own style while being able to completely change that tactic next turn if they find it's not going to work because of something the other player did on their turn. It looks like it has enough options to make replays worth trying.

KS page says Patrick Receveur is the developer so I guess that means he made the mechanics maybe? Seems to be quite a few wargames under his belt.

But hey, if the gameplay sucks at least you have some sweet minis to use in your own wargame creation. If you're into that.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Busch

Broomfield
Colorado
msg tools
Avatar
mb
Yeah, I'm totally a "game fan" on this but I knew nothing of it until I stumbled across it at Gen Con. I saw it and it looked awesome so I cleared my morning schedule to get in a demo and it was fantastic. So I cleared my next morning to demo it again and again it was fantastic. After that, I was hooked so I definitely hype it when it I can.

Regarding the "computer generated" painted minis... even a small amount of research outside that campaign would show you extremely obvious examples of painted minis. I'll load some pics I took from the Gen Con case if people actually believe the minis aren't painted. They should be up in a few days (after the mods approve).

Regarding the lower ratings of the chief designers other games... I don't really care since I only care about this game of his and having demo'd it and found it exciting, I'm all good.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lowden025 wrote:

There look to be a couple of folks posting on the BGG who are pushing the game strongly. This actually has raised my level of suspicion.


Well, I think I am also a strong supporter of the game and I don't see what there is of suspicious about it. I am not reviewing the game assuming I have already played it (but we will play it in a few weeks), I am just sharing my enthusiasm for it and pointing out the things I like and have convinced us (my wife and me) to support the project.

After seeing many KS in many years, this is the first one who have convinced both. I have backed up also Gloomhaven second edition by myself previously but, honestly, it was just a reviewed second edition with a little margin of uncertainty (well, the same you could have by buying a game which has been already marketed and played for one year).

Lowden025 wrote:

There are no critical game reviews yet and there never will be for KSes, so I'm not sure I understand your question...the games are not out yet, they're at the prototype phase!


I agree with Jeff, this is a typical Kickstarter development project, not a simple reviewed edition of a consolidated game. Of course we don't have all the information we would prefer to have, and there is a component of trust and hope in supporting it which is not so rational I think.

But without this "emotional" feeling, I am wondering how many successful kickstarter we would have seen and how many good games we would have lost instead.

Sam and Max wrote:

That being said, if the *style* of his games doesn't match your play style, that may be an indicator that "this game is not right for you". That's why I don't play most Eric Lang games or Eurogame designers. Their game designs don't match my play style. From an initial scan of Pascal's work, I'm seeing more European-ish games than, say, 16mm historical miniature wargames (TMP definition of wargames, not BGG).


Thanks Sam and Max, this is the type of comments I would always like to see for games I like (or I dislike). Everybody has its own taste, in our case we really like European-ish games and we even think it would be easier to play (and store laugh) 16mm miniatures (we have already quite a lot bigger miniatures).

I have myself some doubts about some aspects of the game although, in general, It could be great. I have also expressed my good and bad feelings about it at:
My wife's favourites: Top 10 two player games from 2010 to 2017

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Drickman
United States
Ukiah
CA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Back5 wrote:
I think watching multiple gameplay videos is a much better way to judge a game versus reading a rule book. You get to see the flow, the player interactions and ease of interpreting and implementing rules.

A game may seem fun on paper but totally crumble when put on the table.


For me this is definitely not true. I find reading through the rulebook gives me a better feel than a playthrough on whether I will like a game (though both is better than either individually).

The main reasons for this are

1. The people playing or demoing has a big impact, some people can make a great game seem boring and vice versa depending on their personality and or biases.

2. Some games in general are simply not exciting to watch... at all even if the game is one I will really enjoy.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Clapperton
United Kingdom
Hebburn
Tyne & Wear
flag msg tools
publisher
mbmb
By a critical review, do you mean from recognised review sites like Shut Up & Sit Down and The Dice Tower? It's tough to get a review from those types of sites for a game that's on KS. They tend to get round to them once they fulfill. It does mean there's always an element of risk when backing a KS as it can be tough to find these kind of reviews.

In the case of JoA, it's been played by lots of people to this point, and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. It's not just that the usual content provider suspects who say nice things about KS campaigns they feature are saying nice things about it, but several content providers who were just at GenCon playing stuff rated it very highly, including The Dice Tower (or rather Sam), but also other like Techraptor and D6 Generation. That's highly in comparison to the other games they played there, not just that they were saying nice things about everything. Pretty much everyone who has managed to get a demo of it has really liked it also.

Does that mean it's a guaranteed great game? No, it doesn't, and if the large amount of positive feedback, the several playthrough videos, and eventually the rulebook release (which we've been told we'll have at some point during the campaign) aren't enough to convince then don't back. It's a lot of money to spend on something you're not sure about. If you're interested but just can't decide, and if you can reasonbly afford the core pledge, then back it and sell it if you don't like it. Anyone who picked up a core pledge for Mythic Battles: Pantheon and doesn't wind up liking it should easily be able to move it on, and I expect the same to be the case for JoA.

For all that I believe I resemble the remark of someone who is pushing the game hard, and am happy to wear it, I'm not telling anyone to back a game they don't want. To return to the question about critical reviews, I would work on the assumption you won't see one before the campaign ends assuming you mean established and well-known review sites, for the reasons mentioned at the start of my comment. I think Sam's enthusiasm for the game is as close as we'll get to a critical review from that type of site, at least until the game fulfills. If that's an absolute deal breaker then don't back. If you like what you see and can afford to back, then I think there's enough positive feedback out there to at least be cautiously optimistic.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick van Gompel
Netherlands
Aalst
flag msg tools
Avatar
gamer819 wrote:

First of all, let me say that I am one of the so-called "game fans", not only because of the awesome miniatures but also the deep strategy layers.

Hi Jean-Francois, thank you for your input. I was very interested in this game up to a certain point. The -in my eyes- not so deep strategy layers are exactely what put me off. Maybe we have a different definition of the term, or we just have a different view, but would you please be so kind to describe your thoughts on what you exactely call deep strategy layers? (I don't want to start an argue, but I am just curious whether my impressions are wrong and should love this game again.)

The other thing that put me off was the way 'zone activation' works in this game. I really do like this game mechanic, but being able to activate the same troops for movement time after time, makes it too chaotic/unrealistic for me. It's like playing Crossfire (wargame) but with no way to stop your opponent (except if you have any blue cubes of course). It also makes the battlefield very small, although the game is advertised for being able to play big battles. But they probably mean 'big battles' in the sense of 'loads of miniatures'. I mean, all the examples I have seen (played with the core box) you can cross the whole battlefield in about 1 turn (with mounted units and when the river gives you 3-4 activations).

Still following this game though, since the theme/story/looks certainly got my attention.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gompel wrote:

Hi Jean-Francois, thank you for your input. I was very interested in this game up to a certain point. The -in my eyes- not so deep strategy layers are exactely what put me off. Maybe we have a different definition of the term, or we just have a different view, but would you please be so kind to describe your thoughts on what you exactely call deep strategy layers? (I don't want to start an argue, but I am just curious whether my impressions are wrong and should love this game again.)


Thanks Patrick for raising these interesting issues.

From my side I also interested in strategy layers but not necessarily so deep. I would probably be fine even with basic area control and movement approaches, as long as the game doesn't become a dice feast. I don't want another Warhammer Fantasy Battles (8th Edition), I am fine with a fast and lighter war game as BattleLore (Second Edition).

Gompel wrote:

The other thing that put me off was the way 'zone activation' works in this game. I really do like this game mechanic, but being able to activate the same troops for movement time after time, makes it too chaotic/unrealistic for me. It's like playing Crossfire (wargame) but with no way to stop your opponent (except if you have any blue cubes of course). It also makes the battlefield very small, although the game is advertised for being able to play big battles. But they probably mean 'big battles' in the sense of 'loads of miniatures'. I mean, all the examples I have seen (played with the core box) you can cross the whole battlefield in about 1 turn (with mounted units and when the river gives you 3-4 activations)



Indeed it doesn't seem to me so thematic to me that one unit would cover the entire battlefield in one turn but I think this is the natural consequence of the cubes activation system. I remember also that flying units can go on sky in one turn and after come back in whatever unoccupied element of terrain.

But, while it may appear not so thematic, a system of multiple movement for the same unit is also in Eclipse and we enjoy the game nevertheless.

In Runewars you put activation token in the destination zone (to generally prevent units from storming without opposition on the board), and not in the starting zone (like JoA), which I have found very clever the first time I played it.

Maybe in JoA, due also to the presence of critical objectives spread all over the battlefield, the Eclipse approach is preferable.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Di Ponio
United States
Lake Orion
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I go on how I feel towards a particular game. I have followed this one for quite a while. It's a game in a period I am interested in. It seems to have unique gameplay and one that will be pretty easy to pick up. The miniatures look good. At 15mm they look very good and that dragon is something else. I have watched everything I can on the system and get a pretty good feel for how it will flow. I love that there are scenarios but also the ability to have full out point based battles is a real plus.

The game, for its price point, is a very good value in may opinion. Mythic Battles, which arrives shortly I think, is a project I backed after playing a demo so I am familiar with the company and their ability to make a quality product

That is the way I rate a upcoming game but I would never post a review score or push the game until I physically had time with it and I have not with this title.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JohnnyD wrote:
That is the way I rate a upcoming game but I would never post a review score or push the game until I physically had time with it and I have not with this title.


I would also never post a review before getting the game and having a full understand of it. Indeed, I haven't yet published a review since I generally play two player sessions and I think for most games you need to test enough all the different player counts and variants. I still rate games although, because I think it could be useful for other games, but I generally specify if I have played it almost exclusively in two player mode.

From my understanding some users think other user are pushing the game strongly. For me this is quite subjective, I feel more like a genuine fan and backer of the project who would be glad to see more gamers contribute positively to the development of the game (I have also my doubts about some aspects of the game). I am doing it maybe with more passion than usual because my wife is really interested in the game and I really would like her to enjoy the game, but that's all.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Francois Dupont
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Gompel wrote:

Hi Jean-Francois, thank you for your input. I was very interested in this game up to a certain point. The -in my eyes- not so deep strategy layers are exactely what put me off. Maybe we have a different definition of the term, or we just have a different view, but would you please be so kind to describe your thoughts on what you exactely call deep strategy layers? (I don't want to start an argue, but I am just curious whether my impressions are wrong and should love this game again.)

The other thing that put me off was the way 'zone activation' works in this game. I really do like this game mechanic, but being able to activate the same troops for movement time after time, makes it too chaotic/unrealistic for me. It's like playing Crossfire (wargame) but with no way to stop your opponent (except if you have any blue cubes of course). It also makes the battlefield very small, although the game is advertised for being able to play big battles. But they probably mean 'big battles' in the sense of 'loads of miniatures'. I mean, all the examples I have seen (played with the core box) you can cross the whole battlefield in about 1 turn (with mounted units and when the river gives you 3-4 activations).

Still following this game though, since the theme/story/looks certainly got my attention.


What I mean by deep strategy layers, is that it's a strategy game that could have been only dice chucking à la Warhammer, but instead there is an emphasis on the ressource management, sprinkled with RPG elements with choices for your characters. You don't only have to take into account unit positioning and relative strenght, but also if you have the ressources to actually execute your strategy...Should I meet up this last unit of knights before charging with the whole hex? Is it worth the activation? Will they all get there because zones don't support all the units I want to go through? What are my opponent's ressources? Can he charge with a unit next turn and how should I prepare for that? Will he interrupt me this turn? What can he do with his ressources? Should I save up my own ressources for next turn? Will it pay off since I'm still limited by the fact I can't activate a zone more than once? How can I complete my objective more efficiently? Should I level up a character, make sure a knocked out unit is automaticly back on the battlefield or activate my special scenario rules with that XP? Will I be able to pay the upkeep if I do so? Will my character be Holy or Unholy? What can I gain from it?

I mean, I could go on, but just by watching the playthroughs these question exemples popped up naturally. It's just not the typical I go you go mechanic we see in most strategy games, where you know your whole side is gonna do something and your opponent's side too. You always have to manage your ressources and plan how your opponent manages his and prepare for it. Then again, maybe we're not used to the same games and have different definitions of deep strategy layers, but I think this game qualifies.

Since I'm bilingual, I've also watched the games played in French. The game on Tric Trac on the werewolf scenario, the attacker (which is time limited) actually did nothing turn 2 and saved up every ressource he got that turn and bet on the defender not getting better positioning and that his activations wouldn't be that impactful. And it worked. Turn 3 he positioned himself so much better that he ever could on turn 2 and went on to trap the werewolf on the corner of the map, a thing he couldn't have done the turn before because enemy units were blocking his units from moving in. And what's beautiful about this is that if he does that again it could work out any number of ways, maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't, and I'm not talking luck here, but preparation and strategy.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gamer819 wrote:
[q="Gompel"] What I mean by deep strategy layers, is that it's a strategy game that could have been only dice chucking à la Warhammer, but instead there is an emphasis on the ressource management, sprinkled with RPG elements with choices for your characters. You don't only have to take into account unit positioning and relative strenght, but also if you have the ressources to actually execute your strategy


Thank you for your overview Jean-Francois, I am really glad there are other people who have had the feeling that the game IS NOT a dice feast like Warhammer.

gamer819 wrote:
Should I meet up this last unit of knights before charging with the whole hex? Is it worth the activation? Will they all get there because zones don't support all the units I want to go through? What are my opponent's ressources? Can he charge with a unit next turn and how should I prepare for that? Will he interrupt me this turn? What can he do with his ressources? Should I save up my own ressources for next turn? Will it pay off since I'm still limited by the fact I can't activate a zone more than once? How can I complete my objective more efficiently? Should I level up a character, make sure a knocked out unit is automaticly back on the battlefield or activate my special scenario rules with that XP? Will I be able to pay the upkeep if I do so? Will my character be Holy or Unholy? What can I gain from it?


Concerning the zone activation, if possible, I would like somebody to help me clarify what means in practise to not be able to activate the same zone twice (and consequently the importance of the replay cube).

From my understanding with the standard red cube you usually move all the units you have in one zone.

However I suppose:
- if you are attacking an adjacent hex, and you don't manage to occupy the hex, you have to go back to your hex and you are practically stuck in your starting zone and you cannot move again your miniatures. I would be fine with it. Thematically, you failed your charge, you have been repelled by the enemy and the only thing you can do is to retreat in your original position.

- you can move before firing with your archers but, after you have fired you cannot do everything else. I am fine also with it. In other game archers have an additional penalty for moving and firing, in JoA you have to spend an additional action, so in term of gameplay could be equivalent. I don't remember what is the range of the British bowmen but I suppose the game won't allow them to move back and fire the enemy from a safe position for the entire game.

At the moment I don't remember other situations where the replay cube could be useful, but I would be glad if somebody could add other examples (and correct mine if I am not precise enough or wrong laugh).


3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jean-Francois Dupont
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Mithrandir82 wrote:
gamer819 wrote:
[q="Gompel"] What I mean by deep strategy layers, is that it's a strategy game that could have been only dice chucking à la Warhammer, but instead there is an emphasis on the ressource management, sprinkled with RPG elements with choices for your characters. You don't only have to take into account unit positioning and relative strenght, but also if you have the ressources to actually execute your strategy


Thank you for your overview Jean-Francois, I am really glad there are other people who have had the feeling that the game IS NOT a dice feast like Warhammer.

gamer819 wrote:
Should I meet up this last unit of knights before charging with the whole hex? Is it worth the activation? Will they all get there because zones don't support all the units I want to go through? What are my opponent's ressources? Can he charge with a unit next turn and how should I prepare for that? Will he interrupt me this turn? What can he do with his ressources? Should I save up my own ressources for next turn? Will it pay off since I'm still limited by the fact I can't activate a zone more than once? How can I complete my objective more efficiently? Should I level up a character, make sure a knocked out unit is automaticly back on the battlefield or activate my special scenario rules with that XP? Will I be able to pay the upkeep if I do so? Will my character be Holy or Unholy? What can I gain from it?


Concerning the zone activation, if possible, I would like somebody to help me clarify what means in practise to not be able to activate the same zone twice (and consequently the importance of the replay cube).

From my understanding with the standard red cube you usually move all the units you have in one zone.

However I suppose:
- if you are attacking an adjacent hex, and you don't manage to occupy the hex, you have to go back to your hex and you are practically stuck in your starting zone and you cannot move again your miniatures. I would be fine with it. Thematically, you failed your charge, you have been repelled by the enemy and the only thing you can do is to retreat in your original position.

- you can move before firing with your archers but, after you have fired you cannot do everything else. I am fine also with it. In other game archers have an additional penalty for moving and firing, in JoA you have to spend an additional action, so in term of gameplay could be equivalent. I don't remember what is the range of the British bowmen but I suppose the game won't allow them to move back and fire the enemy from a safe position for the entire game.

At the moment I don't remember other situations where the replay cube could be useful, but I would be glad if somebody could add other examples (and correct mine if I am not precise enough or wrong laugh).




I think the replay cube is there as (bad) luck mitigation, so if your front lines and most important units just failed a crucial attack, they couldn't be activated again with activation cubes, so you'd be stuck there. As you MAY get only a handful even by always selecting them from the river (when you can), they are pretty limited and you have to evaluate if you should keep them for mitigation or for a harder push into enemy territory.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
hello there
msg tools
mb
there are replay cubes and interrupt cubes which seem to add an amount of dynamism to the gameplay.

i am not a skirmsh wargame guy and did not back Mythic Battles Pantheon as the gameplay did not do it for me even though I love the theme.

JOA on the other hand I love the theme, the look and the rules so far seem very interesting.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bat Man
msg tools
Looking at the Tric Trac's video of La Brossinière, Pascal has some difficulties conveying his layers of rules. It is really a drag this video, the game doesn't flow at all.

Examples of unclear stuff for me:
- mounted archers. Stealing horses that teleport around the map? Mounting, unmounting? Guaranteed 5min of rules arguments in my gaming group.
- Wagons rules: limit to 1 move a turn, but can move 2 using cards or by spending a green cube (when? which unit is spending it? is it considered as activating?), rolling a die and ...
- a blue cube cannot be used to interrupt the first activation of an opponent? Subtle but does it really bring something to the table?

... learning the game will be long due to all those subtle elements. We don't know if it is for balancing.
They are even making a e-learning platform for the game. I feel like learning Advanced Squad Leader.


The strategy shared to the players by the designer seem not optimal at all either.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick van Gompel
Netherlands
Aalst
flag msg tools
Avatar
Lowden025 wrote:
There look to be a couple of folks posting on the BGG who are pushing the game strongly. This actually has raised my level of suspicion.
This just crossed my mind during the day:
I find it suspicious that some people talk about raised suspicion. To stay in the world of Joan of Arc with all it's intrigue and never ending struggle for power: this suspicion about the love for Joan of Arc, may well be to drag her down and to support a cause for their own interest!
But joking aside; I see similar comments on BGG, but I think it's quite normal to talk about a game you like and wanting others to like it too. If not for the 'positive feel' then for extra stretch goals at least.

But more to the point:
Thanks Francesco. Funny you compare it with Warhammer. I always walk far away fom that, but I understand some people like those kind of games and there's nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Indeed it doesn't seem to me so thematic to me that one unit would cover the entire battlefield in one turn but I think this is the natural consequence of the cubes activation system.
Yes, it's a consequence of the game rules as applied, but they could have been different in order to limit this -in my eyes- undesireable behaviour. So it is the designer/team who chose to have it the way it is. You may be right that this is for reaching the critical objectives spread all over the battlefield. Good point.

Jean-Francois, thank you very much for describing your thoughts. Much appreciated. Really makes me understand what you meant by deep strategy.
And thank you for mentioning the example in that tric trac game. I hadn't thought of using that save option, but seems to be a nice way of using it for an extra option to get to your goal. Though, it adds to -you can move everywhere on the battlefield in one turn- dislike for me.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gompel wrote:
Thanks Francesco. Funny you compare it with Warhammer. I always walk far away fom that, but I understand some people like those kind of games and there's nothing wrong with that


Let's clarify immediately I am not looking in JoA a clone of Warhammer. Otherwise other gamers could believe they are similar. shake

I think I played my last game of Warhammer more than 10 years ago but my heart still bleed when I think how much time and money I have spent on this (unworthy) game. shake But I was too young and I didn't have a good online community to open my eyes to other more beautiful games. laugh
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick van Gompel
Netherlands
Aalst
flag msg tools
Avatar
Mithrandir82 wrote:
Concerning the zone activation, if possible, I would like somebody to help me clarify what means in practise to not be able to activate the same zone twice (and consequently the importance of the replay cube).
Good points there. Also, zone activation as in this game, has a 'gamey' aspect, that might be another use for the replay cube.
Let's say you have a larger battle with some lines of troops (represented by the u below), who are on different zones/leagues.
uuuuu
uuu

When you have moved your first line -and those units can be moved as long as you have cubes- the units behind can only move once. See below; the first line of u's moved and then the second line can only move once on the already activated zones (x).
uuuuu
^^^^^
xxxxx
uuu

In my eyes it doesn't make sense that the first line can move as far as they want (of course limited by cubes, cards and whatever), but the second row has to suddenly halt.
So basically, every red cube you leave behind will make a blocking wall for units passing through. I haven't played the game, but this might be bothering for smaller battles too.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francesco
United Kingdom
Loughborough
flag msg tools
Selling board games during Brussels Games Festival 2018: check my for trade items. :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gompel wrote:
In my eyes it doesn't make sense that the first line can move as far as they want (of course limited by cubes, cards and whatever), but the second row has to suddenly halt.
So basically, every red cube you leave behind will make a blocking wall for units passing through. I haven't played the game, but this might be bothering for smaller battles too.


Interesting point.

Theoretically, if you don't exceed the maximum amount of unit per league, you could move first the unit behind and then move all the miniatures (unit 1 and 2) together.

A thematic interpretation could be that the units are moving at the same time and they are not so organised so, after the first unit move, the one behind doesn't manage to react immediately and catch up with the first one. But this is a silly night reasoning probably. laugh

I could test myself when I have the opportunity but I think this could be an issue only for big (Legendary) Battles where you are more likely to exceed the limit of miniatures per league.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.