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Subject: Mixing telephones and radios in a mission rss

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Andy B
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When assigning RT assets at the beginning of a mission, may I, for example, assign telephones for the CO TAC Net and SCR300 radios for the BN TAC Net and/or ARTY FD Net?

This seems like a good idea since the SCR300 works everywhere and won’t use up a phone line.

Or is it all telephones OR all radios with no mixing allowed?
 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:

When assigning RT assets at the beginning of a mission, may I, for example, assign telephones for the CO TAC Net and SCR300 radios for the BN TAC Net and/or ARTY FD Net?

This seems like a good idea since the SCR300 works everywhere and won’t use up a phone line.

Or is it all telephones OR all radios with no mixing allowed?


Yes no mixing

Field telephones or radios, not both. First sentence of network ruless rules.whistle

My bold of or.

4.3.3 Networks

To facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios.
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
UncleBuck wrote:

When assigning RT assets at the beginning of a mission, may I, for example, assign telephones for the CO TAC Net and SCR300 radios for the BN TAC Net and/or ARTY FD Net?

This seems like a good idea since the SCR300 works everywhere and won’t use up a phone line.

Or is it all telephones OR all radios with no mixing allowed?


Yes no mixing

Field telephones or radios, not both. First sentence of network ruless rules.whistle

My bold of or.

4.3.3 Networks

To facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios.



Thanks for your input, Jerry.

I read the rule about a dozen or so times and I would certainly agree with you if it had been written as, "To facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios for all communication."

As it is written, I could be convinced that one could choose phones or radios per network.

Now, I'm no rules lawyer, so in this case, much like the enemy bunker placement on the same card issue, I would be interested in knowing if all phones or all radios is due to historical use or is a simple game rule.

I'd also be interested in how others are playing it. I wouldn't be surprised if some others are using phones for one network and radios for another network.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

-UB
 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:
Starman54 wrote:
UncleBuck wrote:

When assigning RT assets at the beginning of a mission, may I, for example, assign telephones for the CO TAC Net and SCR300 radios for the BN TAC Net and/or ARTY FD Net?

This seems like a good idea since the SCR300 works everywhere and won’t use up a phone line.

Or is it all telephones OR all radios with no mixing allowed?


Yes no mixing

Field telephones or radios, not both. First sentence of network ruless rules.whistle

My bold of or.

4.3.3 Networks

To facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios.



Thanks for your input, Jerry.

I read the rule about a dozen or so times and I would certainly agree with you if it had been written as, "To facilitate command and control, Radios and Field Telephone (RT) networks are established and maintained. You choose during mission planning if you want to use phones or radios for all communication."

As it is written, I could be convinced that one could choose phones or radios per network.

Now, I'm no rules lawyer, so in this case, much like the enemy bunker placement on the same card issue, I would be interested in knowing if all phones or all radios is due to historical use or is a simple game rule.

I'd also be interested in how others are playing it. I wouldn't be surprised if some others are using phones for one network and radios for another network.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

-UB


Not all radio types are available for some missions , you cannot cherry pick them and WW2 was limited due to technology. You wouldn't use phones in Vietnam with better technology available and best of luck trailing phone wires through a jungle and not giving your position away.

The number of phones is designed as a limit which reflects equipment allocation.

There is a danger in re-writing the rules as you see them in that you add things that are not there.

It is the first sentence to Networks and as that is the subject and it doesn't state otherwise adding for all communication is unnecessary as there is no reference to using different types anywhere.

Until recently I had not come across this confusion on radio and phone use. It is certainly not the intention and I have been playing over a decade pre production and post production.

I certainly do not read it that way and the radio operators were issued spare crystals to enable network switching. It would be unlikely that a company would use different methods between platoons and the FO's.

Perhaps it should be added to a FAQ. Plenty of online reference for radio used during wars especially the use of scr536 in WW2 the walkie talkie.



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Andy B
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So just to simplify:

For the first WWII mission — why not use phones for the company net and the SCR300 radio for the battalion net and arty net?

Or phones for the company and battalion nets but the SCR300 radio for the arty net?
 
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Andy B
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I think that my question may be moot because of what I have re-discovered in the errata.

From the errata concerning the SCR536 radios (bold is mine):

"The Normandy OOB should have a note connected to the mention of the SCR536 that states, “Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio.” Also, the “Phone Lines” line in the Assets column should point to a note that states, “Only if Field Phones are chosen.”

Note that this errata entry is only directed at the missing note for the SCR536 (CO Net) radios. This tells me that these are the ONLY radios in the mission that may be exchanged for phones. Otherwise, there would also be a note for the SCR300 radios used for BA Net and ARTY FD Net.

Ergo, in regards to swapping phones for radios, as per the errata, the swap is only for the CO Net radios and there is no option to swap the BA and ARTY Net radios. The final configuration may be one of the following two options:

CO Net - SCR536, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300

OR

CO Net-Phones, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300





 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:


I think that my question may be moot because of what I have re-discovered in the errata.

From the errata concerning the SCR536 radios (bold is mine):

"The Normandy OOB should have a note connected to the mention of the SCR536 that states, “Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio.” Also, the “Phone Lines” line in the Assets column should point to a note that states, “Only if Field Phones are chosen.”

Note that this errata entry is only directed at the missing note for the SCR536 (CO Net) radios. This tells me that these are the ONLY radios in the mission that may be exchanged for phones. Otherwise, there would also be a note for the SCR300 radios used for BA Net and ARTY FD Net.

Ergo, in regards to swapping phones for radios, as per the errata, the swap is only for the CO Net radios and there is no option to swap the BA and ARTY Net radios. The final configuration may be one of the following two options:

CO Net - SCR536, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300

OR

CO Net-Phones, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300







Page 2 of the briefing booklet lists the equipment for the company and it is only the BN Tac Net that has a SCR 300 (or field phone), all the other nets must use the 6 assigned SCR 536 (or field phones)
First items on the list in the second column , the third item is the phone lines that the errata mentions e.g. only used if you choose field phones. You would not give the CO HQ a SCR 300 and the rest of the company radios as they would then all be out of command, FOs form part of the company.

BN TAC Net: SCR300 or Field Phone. 1. Assigned to CO HQ
CO TAC Net: SCR536 or Field Phones. 6. Assigned to Company units as desired

The rules and the briefing book are clear.
 
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
UncleBuck wrote:


I think that my question may be moot because of what I have re-discovered in the errata.

From the errata concerning the SCR536 radios (bold is mine):

"The Normandy OOB should have a note connected to the mention of the SCR536 that states, “Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio.” Also, the “Phone Lines” line in the Assets column should point to a note that states, “Only if Field Phones are chosen.”

Note that this errata entry is only directed at the missing note for the SCR536 (CO Net) radios. This tells me that these are the ONLY radios in the mission that may be exchanged for phones. Otherwise, there would also be a note for the SCR300 radios used for BA Net and ARTY FD Net.

Ergo, in regards to swapping phones for radios, as per the errata, the swap is only for the CO Net radios and there is no option to swap the BA and ARTY Net radios. The final configuration may be one of the following two options:

CO Net - SCR536, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300

OR

CO Net-Phones, BA and ARTY Net - SCR300







Page 2 of the briefing booklet lists the equipment for the company and it is only the BN Tac Net that has a SCR 300 (or field phone), all the other nets must use the 6 assigned SCR 536 (or field phones)
First items on the list in the second column , the third item is the phone lines that the errata mentions e.g. only used if you choose field phones. You would not give the CO HQ a SCR 300 and the rest of the company radios as they would then all be out of command, FOs form part of the company.

BN TAC Net: SCR300 or Field Phone. 1. Assigned to CO HQ
CO TAC Net: SCR536 or Field Phones. 6. Assigned to Company units as desired

The rules and the briefing book are clear.



My 2nd Edition briefing book lists SCR300 for BN TAC Net and, on page four, SCR300 for ARTY FD Net. The scr536 (or phones, according to the errata), are for the Co TAC Net which are for the Co, XO, Mortar, and three Platoon HQ.

The Co HQ gets two RTs because one is used to communicate with BN (using the SCR300) and the other to communicate with the company (scr536 or phones). The ARTY FD uses his SCR300 for his own ARTY network.

The rules are ambiguous (hence my original question) but the errata have made it clear to me that, in WWII scenario 1, only the SCR536 radios may be swapped for phones.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:


My 2nd Edition briefing book lists SCR300 for BN TAC Net and, on page four, SCR300 for ARTY FD Net. The scr536 (or phones, according to the errata), are for the Co TAC Net which are for the Co, XO, Mortar, and three Platoon HQ.

The Co HQ gets two RTs because one is used to communicate with BN (using the SCR300) and the other to communicate with the company (scr536 or phones). The ARTY FD uses his SCR300 for his own ARTY network.

The rules are ambiguous (hence my original question) but the errata have made it clear to me that, in WWII scenario 1, only the SCR536 radios may be swapped for phones.


I have not received the update kit and the new briefing booklets are not online , hopefully Ricky will either issue Briefing book errata or update them.

I was going under the belief that the Briefing booklets had not change apart from minor corrections.

Thanks I won't respond to Briefing questions until the update kit arrives.

I still don't believe you can mix phones and radios. Hopefully Ben will chime in as it seems some radio allocation has also changed.
 
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Andy B
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Jerry, I had a feeling that we were getting our wires crossed


Quote:
I still don't believe you can mix phones and radios. Hopefully Ben will chime in as it seems some radio allocation has also changed.


And I definitely agree with you that within a network (Co TAC Net for example) that phones and radios may not be mixed.


 
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Ricky Gray
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You cannot mix radios and phones. It is one or the other.

Regarding errata being incorporated into a living rules set, GMT policy (which I just learned recently) is to wait a few months before issuing living rules. We are getting close to that.

Best,
Ricky
 
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Jerry Tresman
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Preacher wrote:
You cannot mix radios and phones. It is one or the other.

Regarding errata being incorporated into a living rules set, GMT policy (which I just learned recently) is to wait a few months before issuing living rules. We are getting close to that.

Best,
Ricky



Thankyou Ricky. I am sure you can briefly state which areas of the Missions have changed e.g. Comms.


You may need to say in any mission its either all phones or all radios otherwise the OP will still read it as per Network.

This will prevent crossed lines or frequency interference whistle
 
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
Preacher wrote:
You cannot mix radios and phones. It is one or the other.

Regarding errata being incorporated into a living rules set, GMT policy (which I just learned recently) is to wait a few months before issuing living rules. We are getting close to that.

Best,
Ricky



Thankyou Ricky. I am sure you can briefly state which areas of the Missions have changed e.g. Comms.


You may need to say in any mission its either all phones or all radios otherwise the OP will still read it as per Network.

This will prevent crossed lines or frequency interference whistle



You're right, Jerry, the issue remains in doubt. whistle Although, I would be completely puzzled if it is ruled that it is not possible for a Co HQ to communicate up channel to Battalion on a completely separate network (Ba TAC Net) using a radio and communicate to a platoon HQ on another completely separate network (Co TAC Net) using a phone. The ARTY guy also communicates back to the guns on a completely separate network. whistle

 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:
Starman54 wrote:
Preacher wrote:
You cannot mix radios and phones. It is one or the other.

Regarding errata being incorporated into a living rules set, GMT policy (which I just learned recently) is to wait a few months before issuing living rules. We are getting close to that.

Best,
Ricky



Thankyou Ricky. I am sure you can briefly state which areas of the Missions have changed e.g. Comms.


You may need to say in any mission its either all phones or all radios otherwise the OP will still read it as per Network.

This will prevent crossed lines or frequency interference whistle



You're right, Jerry, the issue remains in doubt. whistle Although, I would be completely puzzled if it is ruled that it is not possible for a Co HQ to communicate up channel to Battalion on a completely separate network (Ba TAC Net) using a radio and communicate to a platoon HQ on another completely separate network (Co TAC Net) using a phone. The ARTY guy also communicates back to the guns on a completely separate network. whistle




I am guessing you don't take orders well.Slightly miffed you keep twisting my words to fit your POV.

The issue is not in doubt just you don't accept it , please stop trying to game it your way or just do it on your own, this is misleading newbies and the rules and Ricky are clear, if you search Ben has explained WW2 Comms and radio vs field phones pros and cons.

Be prepared to be surprised , I am in no doubt and there is no point to mixing, with field phones you have to maintain an unbroken line to the staging area and between platoons, CO commander / Staff. Phones are more reliable than Radios and you have access to all nets. If you don't maintain them because you have a radio then you will be isolated. Talking to BN HQ won't help relay anything g if you have no LOS to target.


The radio to battallion won't help much if you can't communicate with the front lines.
 
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
UncleBuck wrote:
Starman54 wrote:
Preacher wrote:
You cannot mix radios and phones. It is one or the other.

Regarding errata being incorporated into a living rules set, GMT policy (which I just learned recently) is to wait a few months before issuing living rules. We are getting close to that.

Best,
Ricky



Thankyou Ricky. I am sure you can briefly state which areas of the Missions have changed e.g. Comms.


You may need to say in any mission its either all phones or all radios otherwise the OP will still read it as per Network.

This will prevent crossed lines or frequency interference whistle



You're right, Jerry, the issue remains in doubt. whistle Although, I would be completely puzzled if it is ruled that it is not possible for a Co HQ to communicate up channel to Battalion on a completely separate network (Ba TAC Net) using a radio and communicate to a platoon HQ on another completely separate network (Co TAC Net) using a phone. The ARTY guy also communicates back to the guns on a completely separate network. whistle




I am guessing you don't take orders well.

Be prepared to be surprised , I am in no doubt and there is no point as with field phones you have to main an unbroken line to staging area and between platoons and CO commander / staff. The radio to battallion won't help much if you can't communicate with the front lines. Please stop trying to gfame it your way or just do it on your own this is misleading newbies and The rules and Ricky are clear and if you search Ben has explained WW2 Comma and radio vs field phones pros and cons.


Here is the exact rule from the errata for WWII Mission I:

"The Normandy OOB should have a note connected to the mention of the SCR536 that states, “Field Phones may be used in lieu of the SCR536 Radio.” Also, the “Phone Lines” line in the Assets column should point to a note that states, “Only if Field Phones are chosen.”

Where does it say anything about SCR300 radios?

In addition, this doesn't make sense:

Quote:
I am in no doubt and there is no point as with field phones you have to main an unbroken line to staging area and between platoons and CO commander / staff.


As far as I know, the only reason to run a line from the staging area is if the Co HQ is still in the staging area and the platoon HQ (or whatever else) is in row 2 or beyond. If the Co HQ is in row 2 then there's no reason for him to run a line to the staging area unless he's communicating with a platoon (or whatever) that is still in the staging area. The lines run between phones. The Co HQ doesn't need a line to Bn because he's using a SCR300 radio for that communication. Just like the ARTY guy.

I'm not trying to be difficult or misleading, Jerry. I'd just like to play by the rules. This should be a very easy rule to clear up and I don't mind if I end up surprised. Please stop trying to spike me by telling me that I should just shut up and play the way you've always played. Your reasoning is very confusing to this newbie.

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Jerry Tresman
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There is a point because if using phones you may want off board support and contact with Battalion.

Ricky just confirmed Phones or Radios he would have read the thread and said if it was a choice per network. I knew you would refuse to accept it as you had done previously which is why I asked him to include for all networks. You knew I was not agreeing but said I was that is manipulative.
 
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
There is a point because if using phones you may want off board support and contact with Battalion.


I agree with you. In my game t
hat is what the BN TAC Net SCR300 is used for.
 
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Andy B
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Starman54 wrote:
There is a point because if using phones you may want off board support and contact with Battalion.

Ricky just confirmed Phones or Radios he would have read the thread and said if it was a choice per network. I knew you would refuse to accept it as you had done previously which is why I asked him to include for all networks. You knew I was not agreeing but said I was that is manipulative.


Sorry, I missed your edit...


I can’t figure out what you’re saying here. I wasn’t manipulating anything you were saying. I simply wanted to know if I could use <edit>phones on</edit> one network and radios on another. I then felt that I had figured out the answer but then you kept insisting that the decision applied to all networks (hence your friendly warning that I should be prepared to be surprised).

I’m just happy that we’re finially on the same page.

I appreciate you taking the time to hash this out.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:
Starman54 wrote:
There is a point because if using phones you may want off board support and contact with Battalion.

Ricky just confirmed Phones or Radios he would have read the thread and said if it was a choice per network. I knew you would refuse to accept it as you had done previously which is why I asked him to include for all networks. You knew I was not agreeing but said I was that is manipulative.


Sorry, I missed your edit...


I can’t figure out what you’re saying here. I wasn’t manipulating anything you were saying. I simply wanted to know if I could use <edit>phones on</edit> one network and radios on another. I then felt that I had figured out the answer but then you kept insisting that the decision applied to all networks (hence your friendly warning that I should be prepared to be surprised).

I’m just happy that we’re finially on the same page.

I appreciate you taking the time to hash this out.


I never said " the issue remains in doubt" so
Were not on the same page it is either all radios or all phones.
 
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Andy B
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By the way, Antonio seems to think that the radio/phone decision applies per network.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1551936/strategic-decisions...

 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:


By the way, Antonio seems to think that the radio/phone decision applies per network.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1551936/strategic-decisions...



I see further down it mentions changes to radios , I am still not sure if this was adopted as the rules haven't changed on this as far as default equipment . I have asked as this needs to be made clear.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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UncleBuck wrote:


By the way, Antonio seems to think that the radio/phone decision applies per network.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1551936/strategic-decisions...



Preacher wrote:
You have the choice each mission of radios or phones. Your company must all have radios, or all have phones. There is no mixing of comms equipment allowed.

Best,
Ricky
 
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Andy B
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Play how you want, Jerry, but there is still no reason to not be able to use a bn radio to communicate between the bn hq and co hq on the bn network while using phones on the co network to communicate between the co hq and the platoon hq. It only makes sense that I can not plug a phone into a radio network or a radio into a phone network. There is no flipping plug and socket to allow this to happen. Pure common sense. On the other hand, I could very easily hold a radio to the left side of my pinhead and a phone to the right side. I will continue to play that it's either all phones or all radios PER NETWORK. If you want to limit yourself then go crazy and have fun.
 
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
If you want to limit yourself then go crazy and have fun.


Hi, Andy. Jerry was simply pasting the official rule clarification. Officially, each mission you must choose either all phones or all radios. Of course, we may all play as we like, especially since it is solo! Good luck and have fun.

Best,
Ricky
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Andy B
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Per network or across all networks, Ricky? Your post simply said within the company.

Edit: Because the very first Normandy mission features 8 devices across 3 networks. From what I can tell so far, our Jerry maintains that the rules and you say that if we want phones rather than crappy 536 radios for the company then we must use phones for all 3 networks: bn net, co net, arty net, even though those 3 networks don't interface other than through the wetware of a soldiers ears. Seems to me that we're going to need a lot more than just the allotted 4 wire if this is how it goes.
 
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