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Subject: When am I "Charming"? When does something match my skill? rss

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(I'm asking these in the same thread because I think the answer is probably the same, i.e. I'm "Charming" exactly when my skill matches Charm, but I want to nail down when that is.)

Am I "Charming":
- If any of my Saint, the confronted card, or a card used to add dice has "Charm"?
- If my Saint has Charm, even if I can't use the skill on this roll?
- If my Saint and either the confronted card or a gift adding dice has "Charm"? That is, any skill I could theoretically use, whether I do or not.
- Or, only if I am actually using that particular skill to generate a bonus die on this particular roll? E.g. as Gabriella, I could be "Charming" or "Hacking" (or neither) but not both?

What about if I was able to use the skill to add a bonus die (e.g. no power said "You may not Charm" and I didn't use any other skill), but practically wasn't (e.g. I ran out of bonus dice)?

For Gabriella's +1 power, when does a gift match my skill?
- Any skill on the gift matches any skill on my Saint?
- Any skill on the gift matches any skill I could have used to add dice, even if I used a different skill?
- Only when I am using that particular skill to add dice on that particular roll?
 
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Byron Campbell
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I believe you are "charming" only when you are using charm to add bonus dice. However, I would also say you are "charming" even if you cannot physically add dice, as long as you could have used the skill on your roll.

As for Gabriella's power, it's confusing, but basically it means the gift needs to match any of her printed skills (I believe she has 4 to start).
 
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I'm inclined to agree on the first part, but I'm not sure about the second. If it said "matches your skills" I'd agree it's any of the skills she has regardless of what was used, but in the singular it sounds like it means a specific skill.
 
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David Arlington
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I agree with Byron's assessment of what it means to be Charming (i.e. you either added dice with the Charm skill or COULD have added dice but ran out of bonus dice). By the way, this is one of the first questions I ever asked about this game and that's the answer I was given here.

I am also playing Gabriela's as your first statement. At least one skill on the Gift she uses for her power has to match one of her skills on her character card.

Dave
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Aviva Schecterson
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kittenhoarder wrote:
I believe you are "charming" only when you are using charm to add bonus dice.


Yes

kittenhoarder wrote:
However, I would also say you are "charming" even if you cannot physically add dice, as long as you could have used the skill on your roll.


I can't think of any cases where you cannot add a die for Charm and still "could have used the skill," unless if a power says "You cannot Charm," then even if you could have Charmed, you did not Charm, so you're not Charming and you cannot do any power that says "When Charming."

Gabriella's evaluate power:
piman wrote:
For Gabriella's +1 power, when does a gift match my skill?
- Any skill on the gift matches any skill on my Saint?
- Any skill on the gift matches any skill I could have used to add dice, even if I used a different skill?
- Only when I am using that particular skill to add dice on that particular roll?

kittenhoarder wrote:
As for Gabriella's power, it's confusing, but basically it means the gift needs to match any of her printed skills

piman wrote:
If it said "matches your skills" I'd agree it's any of the skills she has regardless of what was used, but in the singular it sounds like it means a specific skill.


The power is on "Evaluate", not "Evaluate when [skilling]" so whenever Gabriella or someone at her nexus is Evaluating, she may do the power, which is to recycle a gift that has the skill Charm AND/OR Hack AND/OR Resist AND/OR Strike (I'm ignoring powers that would give her another skill but the same applies). The word "skill" is singular because plural could imply that the gift needs all four skills instead of just needing to match one, and that's not the intent.

Aviva
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AvivaYalla wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
However, I would also say you are "charming" even if you cannot physically add dice, as long as you could have used the skill on your roll.


I can't think of any cases where you cannot add a die for Charm and still "could have used the skill"


I don't have an example handy for charming, but it can easily happen for Kairos and resisting or conjuring, because you'll physically run out of dice.
 
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Aviva Schecterson
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piman wrote:
I don't have an example handy for charming, but it can easily happen for Kairos and resisting or conjuring, because you'll physically run out of dice.


I see. Running out of dice is a different issue. Under Using Dice, "You can never roll more dice of a color than are provided in the box (four of each virtue color and four white bonus dice), even if players have more dice than that." (pg 17) So if the issue is that you don't have enough dice to Charm, then you're not Charming (but there's the benefit of already having so many dice...). If you have Charm 2, and only have one more bonus die, then you can Charm using one die.
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Jeff Goldsmith
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You can "have" more than four dice of a color; you just can't roll them. So why can't you charm to get extra dice you can't roll?
 
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Aviva Schecterson
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JeffG wrote:
You can "have" more than four dice of a color; you just can't roll them. So why can't you charm to get extra dice you can't roll?


I'm not sure I quite understand your question, but I think the answer is bonus/white dice do help with the overflow of any virtues, but you cannot get an overflow of dice for skills.
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Jeff Goldsmith
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AvivaYalla wrote:
So if the issue is that you don't have enough dice to Charm, then you're not Charming


This is to what I was referring. Let's say you have four or more virtue dice and four or more bonus dice. I don't see why you can't still use your Charm skill to add more dice. You won't get to roll them, but you are "charming," so if you have an effect which will give you something while charming, you ought still be able to use that effect. Of course, this is probably not a very important point; just use the skill before getting your last die and you can use the charming effect. But I think you are allowed to add bonus dice past four (but can't roll them), so the order doesn't really matter. And in the case above, you are still charming.
 
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Aviva Schecterson
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JeffG wrote:
AvivaYalla wrote:
So if the issue is that you don't have enough dice to Charm, then you're not Charming


This is to what I was referring. Let's say you have four or more virtue dice and four or more bonus dice. I don't see why you can't still use your Charm skill to add more dice. You won't get to roll them, but you are "charming," so if you have an effect which will give you something while charming, you ought still be able to use that effect. Of course, this is probably not a very important point; just use the skill before getting your last die and you can use the charming effect. But I think you are allowed to add bonus dice past four (but can't roll them), so the order doesn't really matter. And in the case above, you are still charming.


I see what you mean now, So Mike and Chad say that using a skill is independent of how many dice you have. Typically, running out of dice will often lead you to decide not to play a card, but it doesn't stop you from playing the card. The same applies to skills, so you're right that if you somehow have capped on dice and don't have dice to Charm but otherwise could, then for the purpose of powers that say "when Charming," yes you are Charming.
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