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Subject: The Diver dives, then a tremor occurs.... rss

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Nick Strudwick
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So, we had an interesting situation in our recent game... We were playing with the Diver, and on their turn the diver player used the "Dive" action. This action description reads "If you are on a water tile, remove your caver piece from the cave. On your next turn, instead of performing any actions, place your caver piece on any revealed water tile".

So far, so good!

In the Hazard phase, we had a tremor card revealed. The question is, does the diver need to make this roll?.

We ended up deciding that, thematically, we don't think the diver needs to roll in this instance: they are not on the cave. The issue would be that if the diver did roll, and rolled a 1, and therefore lost their last life point, then they would be unconscious, and not in the board, and therefore unable to be revived. They would effectively be lost underwater and out of the game.

Any thoughts on this - is our assumption correct?
 
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Brian Cairns
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Rules are clear, the Diver is removed (you could consider him in a secret tunnel section connecting the two flood tokens) so therefor he isnt in the tile to receive damage so he made a lucky escape.
 
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Nick Strudwick
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Yeah, that's what we went with: it seems to make the most sense. Cheers!
 
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Randolph Williams
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WeAreGeek wrote:
Rules are clear, the Diver is removed (you could consider him in a secret tunnel section connecting the two flood tokens) so therefor he isnt in the tile to receive damage so he made a lucky escape.


I totally and completely disagree. Tremors affect ALL conscious cavers and there is nothing in the rules that says the Diver is not in the cave. If anything, the "secret tunnel" is in the cave and it leaves the Diver MORE vulnerable to Tremors.

Thematically it makes sense too; imagine diving in an underwater tunnel during an earthquake. Take a very close look at the Diver player board. Notice the sentence. "If you fall unconscious while on this board, you cannot be rescued"? I'll give you one guess as to how that happens.

-K'Trazz
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Nick Strudwick
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ktrazz wrote:
Tremors affect ALL conscious cavers and there is nothing in the rules that says the Diver is not in the cave.


Except there is. On the Diver's player board, as stated above, is the following text for the Dive action: "If you are on a water tile, remove your caver piece from the cave. On your next turn, instead of performing any actions, place your caver piece on any revealed water tile".

Furthermore, the above quoted text is the entirety of the rules I can find about the Dive action. The phrase "If you fall unconscious while on this board, you cannot be rescued" does not appear anywhere on the Diver's player board that I have, (despite me looking very closely).

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Pepperhed wrote:
The issue would be that if the diver did roll, and rolled a 1, and therefore lost their last life point, then they would be unconscious, and not in the board, and therefore unable to be revived. They would effectively be lost underwater and out of the game.

Originally, this was the case. Diver would dive onto her caver board, where tremors did still affect her, and any loss of consciousness there would have her effectively removed from the game.

If you're on a water tile, move your caver piece onto this board.

If you're on this caver board, move your caver piece onto any water tile.

(if you fall unconscious while on this board, you cannot be rescued).


The new description is less clear - I agree - but tremors do still apply (although it's important to note that now she can be rescued). Here's where the designer details the change in wording:

Keybmouse wrote:
The intention was to leave it open ended to give players more choice - you've read it correctly, in that you *can* heal underwater (because we don't state you can't), but in testing it's basically never come up. On further reflection, I'm now very tempted to tweak this ability to something like:

"If you're on a water tile, move your caver piece to this caver board. On your next turn, instead of performing actions, put your caver piece onto any water tile."

This is very close to functionally identical (the differences being that you can't heal underwater (-), you can't linger underwater (-), you can't surface and exert in the same turn (-), and if you get tremor'd to zero health while under you float to the surface somewhere instead of dying permanently (+)), but it feels a bit clearer than the current wording. I'll run this past the team.

Thanks!


Tim


Hope that helps.
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Nick Strudwick
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Ah! Yep, that makes sense. Thanks Rhinoceros! Rhino hero!
 
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Randolph Williams
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Pepperhed wrote:
Furthermore, the above quoted text is the entirety of the rules I can find about the Dive action. The phrase "If you fall unconscious while on this board, you cannot be rescued" does not appear anywhere on the Diver's player board that I have, (despite me looking very closely).



Ahh! I truly apologize. I had no idea that the rules and Player board had been changed (I've not yet received my copy). I prefer the original wording; it made sense to make sure your diver was well healthy before diving.
 
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Gareth Pugh
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What do folk think about where you would place an unconscious Diver upon them resurfacing on their next turn?

I guess it's either a) where they started, b) wherever the Diver player decides, or c) random - my feeling is that b) is too easy and c) is too harsh but feels the most thematic, leaving a)...

I guess the lesson is not to Dive on less than two Health though (three if you're feeling Advanced or Expert), but I'm sure it will come up (ha ha) at some point, so just thought I'd ask.
 
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Stereosmiles wrote:
What do folk think about where you would place an unconscious Diver upon them resurfacing on their next turn?

I guess it's either a) where they started, b) wherever the Diver player decides, or c) random - my feeling is that b) is too easy and c) is too harsh but feels the most thematic, leaving a)...

I guess the lesson is not to Dive on less than two Health though (three if you're feeling Advanced or Expert), but I'm sure it will come up (ha ha) at some point, so just thought I'd ask.

I'm actually going to play that aspect of it as originally designed: with her being lost. I like that diver has to be very careful when using that ability. But it's a good question. I would assume it's player's choice, but house ruling that it becomes a random water tile is also something I could see going with. But I like your reasoning for the original tile as well... that actually makes a lot of sense, and is probably the best idea now that I've written all this out.
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