Jeremy Mease
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First off, I love the game. The below is only my nitpicks on what is otherwise a solid, fantastic game. It may seem like I don't like it, but truly, I did, and am excited to continue playing it.

We house ruled a bunch of stuff, but maybe I am just doing it wrong.

I am terrible at reading and understanding games in blocks of text, but hoping someone can simplify the rules better. Again, I assume this is all in the rule book (I did look and didn't see it clearly spelled out), but maybe I am not getting it just right...

---------------

I pulled out the starting tiles required by the game for the "Blue Eyes" scenario.

It looks like level 1 and level 3 are on the board. I assume I can't access level 3 until I find the mine shaft. Is that the only way to access level 3? I seem to recall some tile that did give you access to level 3 from level 2 by saying "these tiles are adjacent" or something like that. How does that work during a play through? There were no stairs going down from level 2 that I can recall or up from 3.

How to you get to level 2? Once you move you character to the tile with the level 1 stairs, do you "explore" another tile and then that is level 2?

-----------

Next, you don't use all the tiles and creatures in every scenario, right? I mean, there aren't revolutionary ghosts in an Egyptian tomb and things like the Mount Olympus tile isn't in there, right?

I swear I didn't see anything that told me to take out specific cards or tiles for a specific scenario, yet seems to imply you use them all. I mean, it had me set aside Sphinx elites, etc for when you find the artifacts to cover those encounters, but nothing more that I could see.

If I am wrong, great, but if that is the case, why would you use such a bizarre mix of themes in a single game? That kills the feel and makes it a total hodgepodge of random insanity. Thanks, I assume there is something in the rules to set aside certain tiles and beasts for certain
scenarios but I can't find it!

-----------------

Also, if you lose courage in EVERY fight (and you do since it doesn't all come back), and only get back half rounded up, how are you not fleeing within 3-5 fights?

I started with -1 courage (tommy gun guy).

1st fight:
-3 then + 2 (1.5 rounded up) now at -2

-4 then + 2 now at -4

Then, multiple elite guard for the artifact hitting me at like -8 or something (due to using tommy gun since that is like the only thing I am good at) and I am gone. Like, it is impossible to not flee multiple times during a game. If you avoid monsters they just swarm you, and if your agility sucks you can't evade. No idea how to resolve this problem, so we kind of ignored courage since I clearly don't understand how it works and how it doesn't completely ruin the adventure by forcing you to just run away all the time (either to avoid monsters (not fun) or fleeing the actual level and losing all your cool items and progress every few turns).

Do I have to actually attack them to get the courage hit, even if there are 3 baddies in the room? If I only attack one, do I take just that courage hit and then if they subsequently attack me, do I take the other courage hit then?

The issue is the tommy gun attacks ALL of them and is the only decent thing I can do, so my courage drops like a Winnebago in a lake. Like, spraying a room and not killing anything is just dumb for me to do since I take such a massive hit (especially vs elites) and all my stats just drop into the crap zone or I lose my character. If I can't finish the fight, forget it, my character is now so nerfed I might as well resign since I am not getting any courage back if I am not in that room.

What I am saying is the tommy gun makes you run for the hills so fast and that makes no sense. It becomes impossible to use very quickly since spraying a room make you take -courage for each monster (as is my understanding). Once you hit -3 or -4 courage, you might as well drop the gun or use the basic +modifier for single combat. But then again, no fun since your best ability can only be used once or so before it becomes worthless.

How do you gain courage other than beating bad guys? Maybe if there is another way to gain it I am missing then I am just making things harder for myself?

-----------------

Upkeep. So, during a game, I broke my starting weapon the first roll. What do I do? My strength sucks so punching an elite is out and they move too fast to avoid. I search for an item, and find bandages and lose an action point. Then my search goes yellow. I search again and I spawn a monster and my search goes red (another lost action point). I search again and more monsters appear and now they are hitting me, and I can't fight back since my gun broke and OH GEEZ I AM DEAD.

Do I just pick a new person? Is the point of the game to have everyone roll through multiple characters quickly? I get invested in my characters. I care if they die or flee, and if they are simply expendable bodies it hurts the RP element immensely. How are you supposed to recover from a gun that breaks the first upkeep roll? You could search for 10 turns straight and never find a new gun and if all your bonuses and powers are gun based, well dang... your game is over.

We found ourselves breaking equipment so often it was almost a joke:

1 Weapon breaks
2 Monster attacks, but now have to use crap stat to fight it
3 Courage drops so stats lower even further
4 Get pummeled
5 Search and find nothing useful and then get surrounded and die
6 Grab a new character and go to step 1

Maybe I am not getting upkeep either. If I shoot a gun, I have to roll for upkeep or I have to roll EVERY time the round ends? I mean, I pretty much shoot every round at some point during my 3 actions since the monsters move so quickly.

Lastly, elites can move up and down stairs but yellow baddie can't right?


Want to play again but with all the about clarified, thanks!
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Aaron Bredon
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ReluctantFr0g wrote:
First off, I love the game. The below is only my nitpicks on what is otherwise a solid, fantastic game. It may seem like I don't like it, but truly, I did, and am excited to continue playing it.

We house ruled a bunch of stuff, but maybe I am just doing it wrong.

I am terrible at reading and understanding games in blocks of text, but hoping someone can simplify the rules better. Again, I assume this is all in the rule book (I did look and didn't see it clearly spelled out), but maybe I am not getting it just right...

---------------

I pulled out the starting tiles required by the game for the "Blue Eyes" scenario.

It looks like level 1 and level 3 are on the board. I assume I can't access level 3 until I find the mine shaft. Is that the only way to access level 3? I seem to recall some tile that did give you access to level 3 from level 2 by saying "these tiles are adjacent" or something like that. How does that work during a play through? There were no stairs going down from level 2 that I can recall or up from 3.

How to you get to level 2? Once you move you character to the tile with the level 1 stairs, do you "explore" another tile and then that is level 2?

You start with 3 level 1 tiles, 1 level 2 tile and 1 level 3 tile on the board. The level 1 stair connects to the level 2 tile.

The only way to level 3 is via the pitfall and the mine shaft. If you can place a rope token, you can go back up the same way. Otherwise there is a 1-way stair from level 3 to level 1


ReluctantFr0g wrote:

-----------

Next, you don't use all the tiles and creatures in every scenario, right? I mean, there aren't revolutionary ghosts in an Egyptian tomb and things like the Mount Olympus tile isn't in there, right?

I swear I didn't see anything that told me to take out specific cards or tiles for a specific scenario, yet seems to imply you use them all. I mean, it had me set aside Sphinx elites, etc for when you find the artifacts to cover those encounters, but nothing more that I could see.

If I am wrong, great, but if that is the case, why would you use such a bizarre mix of themes in a single game? That kills the feel and makes it a total hodgepodge of random insanity. Thanks, I assume there is something in the rules to set aside certain tiles and beasts for certain
scenarios but I can't find it!


You use all the cards and tiles in every game - the Tomb is sort of a 'Bermuda Triangle' of bad things.

ReluctantFr0g wrote:

-----------------

Also, if you lose courage in EVERY fight (and you do since it doesn't all come back), and only get back half rounded up, how are you not fleeing within 3-5 fights?

I started with -1 courage (tommy gun guy).

1st fight:
-3 then + 2 (1.5 rounded up) now at -2

-4 then + 2 now at -4

The trick is that everyone in the room gains the courage, so if you multiple characters can each take on and kill 1 monster, you can actually gain courage from fights.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:


Then, multiple elite guard for the artifact hitting me at like -8 or something (due to using tommy gun since that is like the only thing I am good at) and I am gone. Like, it is impossible to not flee multiple times during a game. If you avoid monsters they just swarm you, and if your agility sucks you can't evade. No idea how to resolve this problem, so we kind of ignored courage since I clearly don't understand how it works and how it doesn't completely ruin the adventure by forcing you to just run away all the time (either to avoid monsters (not fun) or fleeing the actual level and losing all your cool items and progress every few turns).

Do I have to actually attack them to get the courage hit, even if there are 3 baddies in the room? If I only attack one, do I take just that courage hit and then if they subsequently attack me, do I take the other courage hit then?

The issue is the tommy gun attacks ALL of them and is the only decent thing I can do, so my courage drops like a Winnebago in a lake. Like, spraying a room and not killing anything is just dumb for me to do since I take such a massive hit (especially vs elites) and all my stats just drop into the crap zone or I lose my character. If I can't finish the fight, forget it, my character is now so nerfed I might as well resign since I am not getting any courage back if I am not in that room.

The tommy gun has the option of attacking all of them, but you can choose to only attack 1.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:

What I am saying is the tommy gun makes you run for the hills so fast and that makes no sense. It becomes impossible to use very quickly since spraying a room make you take -courage for each monster (as is my understanding). Once you hit -3 or -4 courage, you might as well drop the gun or use the basic +modifier for single combat. But then again, no fun since your best ability can only be used once or so before it becomes worthless.

How do you gain courage other than beating bad guys? Maybe if there is another way to gain it I am missing then I am just making things harder for myself?

-----------------

Upkeep. So, during a game, I broke my starting weapon the first roll. What do I do? My strength sucks so punching an elite is out and they move too fast to avoid. I search for an item, and find bandages and lose an action point. Then my search goes yellow. I search again and I spawn a monster and my search goes red (another lost action point). I search again and more monsters appear and now they are hitting me, and I can't fight back since my gun broke and OH GEEZ I AM DEAD.

remember that search also rotates during the tomb phase - you can search green, then wait for it to hit green again.
You can also move so that the monsters can't reach you during the tomb phase.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:

Do I just pick a new person? Is the point of the game to have everyone roll through multiple characters quickly? I get invested in my characters. I care if they die or flee, and if they are simply expendable bodies it hurts the RP element immensely. How are you supposed to recover from a gun that breaks the first upkeep roll? You could search for 10 turns straight and never find a new gun and if all your bonuses and powers are gun based, well dang... your game is over.

We found ourselves breaking equipment so often it was almost a joke:

1 Weapon breaks
2 Monster attacks, but now have to use crap stat to fight it
3 Courage drops so stats lower even further
4 Get pummeled
5 Search and find nothing useful and then get surrounded and die
6 Grab a new character and go to step 1

Maybe I am not getting upkeep either. If I shoot a gun, I have to roll for upkeep or I have to roll EVERY time the round ends? I mean, I pretty much shoot every round at some point during my 3 actions since the monsters move so quickly.

You roll upkeep only if you shot the weapon during the roud, no matter how many times you shot.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:

Lastly, elites can move up and down stairs but yellow baddie can't right?

No - all monsters can go up and down stairs, but only bosses can move to or from level 3 without stairs.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:


Want to play again but with all the about clarified, thanks!
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You confirmed my worst fears then, and that's too bad. Everyone at the table agreed the hodgepodge of themes thrown into a blender in one session was very distracting. We are hunting an ancient Egyptian god and Revolutionary War ghosts are fighting us? So strange.

Oh well, I can pull those cards pretty easily, I think we will house rule it.


"The tommy gun has the option of attacking all of them, but you can choose to only attack 1."

Right, but that is one of the best moves he has, so since it isn't a super power, just a regular power, it seems odd to nerf it so badly. It can easily be fixed by losing courage equal to the highest level creature in the room, no matter how many there are.

"remember that search also rotates during the tomb phase - you can search green, then wait for it to hit green again.
You can also move so that the monsters can't reach you during the tomb phase."

This does me no good when surrounded by enemies I can't evade. I can't wait around for 3 rounds to reset the search triangle. I just die. Especially when I happen to have 1 more soul shard than everyone else. Also, a lot of creatures move 4. FOUR. Exploring a tile STOPS your movement. So a monster 1 tile away will grab you no matter what, you can't flee. This happens often, because what is the point of circling the tomb? You need to pull tiles to get the artifacts to spawn.

"The trick is that everyone in the room gains the courage, so if you multiple characters can each take on and kill 1 monster, you can actually gain courage from fights."

You can, but what if it is a tough creature and we all attack it? Most of the elite creatures require a team effort. They hit HARD and one person can't take that much damage.

"No - all monsters can go up and down stairs, but only bosses can move to or from level 3 without stairs."

Man, I lean towards bad design then. Unless one person wants to act as bait and get wrecked, then whole team is spending every action point fighting. That means not exploring, or adventuring.

Am I doing something wrong? Every turn 3 or more monsters spawn. They all race towards you as fast as they can. When exploring, you stop movement when entering a new tile. They are bound to catch you within one turn, maybe two.

Then, you spend all actions fighting them. If you roll badly, they aren't fully dead and NEW monsters spawn. Then, while you are stuck fighting, they race towards you and really clog you up.

The feedback from the group was there was so much combat and very little adventuring. I agree.

Again, this can be fixed easily by not allowing creatures to change floors. The 10 max monster cap makes it possible for 1 or 2 to harass you, but that is manageable. 2 people can explore and two can hold them off. It seems laughable that 4 people can hold off 10 monsters continually. At about round 4, you are completely overrun. Monsters clog the hallways, and those who can't evade are doomed to die, or others are forced to just fight over and over to clear the logjams of creatures to free them and move a few spaces until the next batch clogs you up again.

 
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ReluctantFr0g wrote:

"The tommy gun has the option of attacking all of them, but you can choose to only attack 1."

Right, but that is one of the best moves he has, so since it isn't a super power, just a regular power, it seems odd to nerf it so badly. It can easily be fixed by losing courage equal to the highest level creature in the room, no matter how many there are.

That would break it, not fix it. You shouldn't automatically do area combat.
ReluctantFr0g wrote:

"remember that search also rotates during the tomb phase - you can search green, then wait for it to hit green again.
You can also move so that the monsters can't reach you during the tomb phase."

This does me no good when surrounded by enemies I can't evade. I can't wait around for 3 rounds to reset the search triangle. I just die.

You do know that if you fail to evade during your movement, you can take half the enemy's combat rating in damage and continue moving, right?

You shouldn't get that blocked in during the first 4 rounds that you can't get away.

ReluctantFr0g wrote:

Especially when I happen to have 1 more soul shard than everyone else. Also, a lot of creatures move 4. FOUR. Exploring a tile STOPS your movement. So a monster 1 tile away will grab you no matter what, you can't flee. This happens often, because what is the point of circling the tomb? You need to pull tiles to get the artifacts to spawn.

"The trick is that everyone in the room gains the courage, so if you multiple characters can each take on and kill 1 monster, you can actually gain courage from fights."

You can, but what if it is a tough creature and we all attack it? Most of the elite creatures require a team effort. They hit HARD and one person can't take that much damage.

"No - all monsters can go up and down stairs, but only bosses can move to or from level 3 without stairs."

Man, I lean towards bad design then. Unless one person wants to act as bait and get wrecked, then whole team is spending every action point fighting. That means not exploring, or adventuring.

Am I doing something wrong? Every turn 3 or more monsters spawn. They all race towards you as fast as they can. When exploring, you stop movement when entering a new tile. They are bound to catch you within one turn, maybe two.

Then, you spend all actions fighting them. If you roll badly, they aren't fully dead and NEW monsters spawn. Then, while you are stuck fighting, they race towards you and really clog you up.

The feedback from the group was there was so much combat and very little adventuring. I agree.

Again, this can be fixed easily by not allowing creatures to change floors. The 10 max monster cap makes it possible for 1 or 2 to harass you, but that is manageable. 2 people can explore and two can hold them off. It seems laughable that 4 people can hold off 10 monsters continually. At about round 4, you are completely overrun. Monsters clog the hallways, and those who can't evade are doomed to die, or others are forced to just fight over and over to clear the logjams of creatures to free them and move a few spaces until the next batch clogs you up again.



You are definitely doing something wrong. Around 2-4 Monsters will spawn every 12 player actions, and only in red bordered rooms. If there are no red bordered rooms on a level, no spawn on that level. By the time there are 5 monsters on the board, it is round 3, and around 15 rooms will have been explored.

Here is a sample first round 4 player:
P1 explores
P2 explores
P3 explores: a spawn room
P4 explores
P1 searches green
P2 explores a dead end.
P3 explores
P4 explores
P1 explores
P2 moves
P3 explores
P4 moves
Tomb phase: 2 monsters spawn level 1, both in the single spawn room.
The level 2 and 3 spawns are ignored, as no level 2 or 3 spawn rooms exist.
The tomb cards rotates search 1: player 1 is now red, everyone else is yellow.

Note that there is a whole second round of 12 actions before you have to deal with monsters, and 9 rooms have been explored already.
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Yeah, I might be doing it wrong.

I have to play a few more times, lots of little rules I might be overthinking or missing, thanks!!
 
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ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah, I might be doing it wrong.

I have to play a few more times, lots of little rules I might be overthinking or missing, thanks!!


Absolutely! Overthinking here is easy sometimes!

So no worries - and as always, it's your game! Be sure to house rule whatever you need to have fun! - We made this so you can have fun and enjoy!

Chris
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cbatarlis wrote:
ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah, I might be doing it wrong.

I have to play a few more times, lots of little rules I might be overthinking or missing, thanks!!


Absolutely! Overthinking here is easy sometimes!

So no worries - and as always, it's your game! Be sure to house rule whatever you need to have fun! - We made this so you can have fun and enjoy!

Chris


Thanks! I know it's been asked before, but I am still unclear:

Once you fight a certain type of enemy, does that type hurt your courage anymore, or are you "safe" from a courage hit after that?

Example: A doppelganger attacks Player A. Player A beats it. Now, for the rest of the game, he won't lose anymore courage from any doppelganger type enemies? Player B has not faced a doppelganger, so they still can lose courage from facing one.

Is the above correct? Thanks!!
 
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ReluctantFr0g wrote:
cbatarlis wrote:
ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah, I might be doing it wrong.

I have to play a few more times, lots of little rules I might be overthinking or missing, thanks!!


Absolutely! Overthinking here is easy sometimes!

So no worries - and as always, it's your game! Be sure to house rule whatever you need to have fun! - We made this so you can have fun and enjoy!

Chris


Thanks! I know it's been asked before, but I am still unclear:

Once you fight a certain type of enemy, does that type hurt your courage anymore, or are you "safe" from a courage hit after that?

Example: A doppelganger attacks Player A. Player A beats it. Now, for the rest of the game, he won't lose anymore courage from any doppelganger type enemies? Player B has not faced a doppelganger, so they still can lose courage from facing one.

Is the above correct? Thanks!!


You only lose courage once per enemy card - examples:
A Hound of Tindalos attacks Player A. Player A loses Courage. Player A defeats the Hound of Tindalos, but the Hound of Tindalos comes back to life due to the die roll made when it dies. Player A Attacks the resurrected Hound of Tindalos, but does not lose any more courage, since this is still the same card.
(this is most important in the Muramasa scenario, as the boss can come back after being killed, but you only lose courage once)

Player B attacks 2 Revolutionary Poltergeists with an area attack. He loses courage for each.
 
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abredon wrote:
ReluctantFr0g wrote:
cbatarlis wrote:
ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah, I might be doing it wrong.

I have to play a few more times, lots of little rules I might be overthinking or missing, thanks!!


Absolutely! Overthinking here is easy sometimes!

So no worries - and as always, it's your game! Be sure to house rule whatever you need to have fun! - We made this so you can have fun and enjoy!

Chris


Thanks! I know it's been asked before, but I am still unclear:

Once you fight a certain type of enemy, does that type hurt your courage anymore, or are you "safe" from a courage hit after that?

Example: A doppelganger attacks Player A. Player A beats it. Now, for the rest of the game, he won't lose anymore courage from any doppelganger type enemies? Player B has not faced a doppelganger, so they still can lose courage from facing one.

Is the above correct? Thanks!!


You only lose courage once per enemy card - examples:
A Hound of Tindalos attacks Player A. Player A loses Courage. Player A defeats the Hound of Tindalos, but the Hound of Tindalos comes back to life due to the die roll made when it dies. Player A Attacks the resurrected Hound of Tindalos, but does not lose any more courage, since this is still the same card.
(this is most important in the Muramasa scenario, as the boss can come back after being killed, but you only lose courage once)

Player B attacks 2 Revolutionary Poltergeists with an area attack. He loses courage for each.


So it sounds like a huge part of the game is manipulating the courage track, like, choosing who to fight and when and which player does it, who is in the room but not engaged, etc.

Yeah, probably house rule it or cut courage altogether. Seems like just more fiddly bits that don't really add much other than more headaches!

It literally amounts to a slow down mechanic. Using your precious actions to rest.

If I cut courage, I don't get the bad stats, BUT I don't get the good stats either, so I think that is a fair compromise.

Can't wait for the new session! Thanks all!

 
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Yeah, you should definitely house rule the game after one play.

shake

The real reason I'm posting, however, is regarding the theme. When I first looked into the game, I was also kinda put off by the theme. But if you read the in-game mythos, the theme is actually really cool.

The temple pops in and out of our plane every 113 years. The rule book states that throughout the millennia, it contains a hodgepodge of things as people/events/things went in and out of the tomb.

The only thematic disconnect I have is that you can search and find a Tommy Gun and a lot of other items contemporary to when our characters are entering the tomb, but how would they have got there if no contemporary explorers have been in there previously?

...but then I realized wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey time travel stuff.

That is to say, you WERE NOT exploring an Egyptian tomb. You were exploring a tomb that's "older than civilization itself" that has had a fresh batch of !#$*%#& go in and out of it every 113 years.
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Yeah makes sense in that way, but after 3 hours of play, and multiple encounters, I don't see a huge problem house ruling a fiddly mechanic that requires you to exploit it.

Why can't we just focus on playing the GAME?
 
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ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah makes sense in that way, but after 3 hours of play, and multiple encounters, I don't see a huge problem house ruling a fiddly mechanic that requires you to exploit it.

Why can't we just focus on playing the GAME?


I think you missed the implied wisdom in the first line of my post.
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Misterboy wrote:
ReluctantFr0g wrote:
Yeah makes sense in that way, but after 3 hours of play, and multiple encounters, I don't see a huge problem house ruling a fiddly mechanic that requires you to exploit it.

Why can't we just focus on playing the GAME?


I think you missed the implied wisdom in the first line of my post.


No no I got it I got it...
 
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