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Subject: Declaring victory at the end of a turn rss

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Chris Nelson
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I expect that this question has come up with respect to other Empire Builder games, but I haven't found it in any FAQ.

The 2nd edition of Iron Dragon states that to declare victory, you must "Have at least 250 GP in cash at the end of a turn."

Does it need to be the player's own turn? For example, if someone rents my track, pushing me to at least 250 GP, may I declare victory at the end of that person's turn?

If so, may I use the same reasoning to temporarily hide my victory, declaring it only after the turn of the last player in the round?
 
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Chris Funk
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Here's how it reads from the current version:

Quote:
You must meet two requirements to declare victory in Iron Dragon:

• Connect seven of the eight major cities with one continuous line of track. This track can have any number of loops and branches, but must be unbroken between the cities.

• Have at least 250 GP in cash at the end of a turn. Only cash is counted; the money spent on building railroads or upgrading locomotives does not count toward winning.

When a player declares victory, play continues until the current round ends, that is, once each player has completed an equal number of turns. If two or more players all declare victory in the same round, the one with the most cash wins. In the event of a tie, the cash requirement is raised by 50 GP to 300 GP. Play then continues, with all players still eligible to win. Both requirements still need to be fulfilled in order to win


Since neither edition say it must be at the end of *your* turn, I would rule it can be at the end of any player's turn, but you still finish the round enabling someone else to declare as well.
 
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Rich Shipley
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I think the intention is that you declare at the end of your turn and the game ends at the end of that round unless there is a tie. That's how the other games in the series work.
 
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Richard Irving
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rshipley wrote:
I think the intention is that you declare at the end of your turn and the game ends at the end of that round unless there is a tie. That's how the other games in the series work.


Thank you for your non-answer.

All of the games have the same wording, "at the end of a turn". And MOST of the time the winner will go over $250M (or Euro, Yen, or GP, etc.) is when they make delivery to earn necessary money (which has to happen their turn) or when they build to the final major city required while already having the necessary money (which has to happen on their turn).

99.999999......% of the time the can only declare they have enough for victory at the end of their own turn.

The only way to gain money when it is not your turn in these games is to be paid for track rental. It is possible that the first player can be at $246-$249 and a later player then uses this player's track and $4 rental fee. (Most players don't rent from the guy who clearly leading.)

Yes, someone could declare victory when it is not their turn, but it is very, very rare.


To the OP:
Quote:
If so, may I use the same reasoning to temporarily hide my victory, declaring it only after the turn of the last player in the round?


Why would you do this?
- What if the tax card comes up after you made enough to win before you declare? Too bad!
- The later players are not going to decide not to not to earn all of the cash they can on their turn, whether they know it is the last one or not.
 
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Rich Shipley
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rri1 wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I think the intention is that you declare at the end of your turn and the game ends at the end of that round unless there is a tie. That's how the other games in the series work.


Thank you for your non-answer.

All of the games have the same wording, "at the end of a turn".


Thank you for playing, but that answer is incorrect. Please enjoy the lovely parting gifts.

From Indian Rails (1998):
"Have at least 250 million in cash at the end of their turn."

From Empire Builder (1999 ed.):
"Have at least 250 million in cash at the end of their turn."

From British Rails (2002):
Have at least £250 million in cash at the end of their turn."

From Australian Rails (2005):
"Have at least 250 million dollars in cash at the end of their turn."

From Lunar Rails (2003):
"Have at least 250 million in cash at the end of his turn."

From Russian Rails (2004):
"Have at least 250 million rubles in cash at the end of his turn."

From China Rails (2007):
"Have at least 250 million yuan at the end of his turn."

From the Empire Builder series rules included in the more recent games (2009):
"Have at least 250 million in cash at the end of his turn."

So it seems that the original Iron Dragon (1994) had some sloppy language and that ended up being cut and pasted into the new version, even though the rule has been clarified in the meantime for the rest of the games in the series.
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M. Robert Stribula
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A player may only declare meeting the victory conditions as the final action in his turn. He may not declare during someone else's turn.

Larry Roznai, final COO at Mayfair Games and their Train Games Guru, was sitting at our table observing a playing of a just delivered Martian Rails game at the World Boardgaming Championship. I rode Ken Horan's track and that put him over 250 M. Ken declared. Larry immediately spoke up and said "You can't do that." He explained the rule as shown above. As the event's GM, I took that as sufficiently authoritative to document it in the official rules for the Empire Builder event at WBC.

I realize this is only anecdotal evidence but it is good enough rule interpretation for the World Boardgaming Championships.
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