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Subject: FLIP effect timing rss

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I am confused about FLIP effect timing.

Rule book said that Flip effect are activated when a card is flipped face-down.
Does this mean Flip effect are activated before the card is flipped face-down? Or after be flipped face-down?

For example, Wind Warrior Cariolis (from Set Rotation - Core Set) have two effects; Ongoing effect and Flip effect.
The Ongoing effect makes Cariolis have higher STAR Rating according to the number of singles on your tableu.
The Flip effect gives you twice RP as much as the Cariolis STAR Rating.
And original STAR Rating of the card is 3.

Then, when you control 3 cards including Cariolis on your tableu, and Cariolis is flipped face-down,

a) you will get 6 RPs (because face-down Cariolis cannot use Ongoing effect).
b) you will get 12 RPs (because until be flipped face-down, the STAR Rating of the Cariolis is 6).

Which is correct?
I guess Rule book says a, but Cariolis is designed with considering b.

And also, can a copy card (e.g. egg series) imitate Flip effect?

Please help me.
Thank you.
 
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Jared Voshall
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Well, it actually can't be A, because after the card is flipped, it has no text and no Star Rating, so if it worked that way you would never score any RP for it. Card Protectors and any effect that triggers a Clash with that card after a Flip also wouldn't work (despite the fact that, for a while, this was how Action: type Clashes worked. It was changed later, and for the better, I think).

Think of it like this: You have a effect that flips the card. Once the card is targeted to flip and you pass on any effects that prevent the card from flipping, you activate the Flip effect of the card. While that effect is resolving, the card is still face up, but the game sees it as already having flipped (so, for example, you couldn't use this to try to loophole flipping the same character multiple times for Doctor Balance). Once the effect resolves, the card is flipped face down, and the rest of the original effect resolves.

So, in this case, you have Wind Warrior Coriolis in play with 2 other cards. An opponent forces you to flip a card, targeting Coriolis. You do not activate your Deck Protectors to protect him, meaning his Flip effect triggers. Since he currently has SR 6, you would gain 12 RP. Once you have collected your RP, you discard any Star tokens he has on him and flip the card face down. If there are any other cards that have yet to be flipped by your opponents Flip effect, they trigger now (in the order desired by that player), following that same process until all characters have been flipped.

This entire thing can get rather complicated when you have Doctor Balance in play with other cards that trigger off Flip effects, with a potential full cavalcade of fun triggered effects popping off - but usually it's not all that complicated, just remember that the card is still face up until any Flip effects it may have are resolved.
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Thanks a lot!
Now, I totally understood.

So, the Copy cards can copy and activate Flip effecets before being flipped, can't they?

Your answer will help us to make more fantastic combos
 
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Jared Voshall
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Yep. Probably not the best use of them, but they can definitely be used for that.
 
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