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Subject: Dark Souls Revised Rules by Gorus rss

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Igor Iriarte
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Hello, everybody. I've been working on a set of house rules to fix the major bugs in this great game. It is intended to be simple by altering as little as possible the components of the game and its spirit.

I have tried the whole campaign with my group of friends and feelings have been very positive.

Here are the download links to pdf (my mother tongue is Spanish, I hope the English version can be understood well):

Edited: New update 1.22

English:

http://gorusweb.com/cosas/darksouls_boardgame/Dark_Souls_Rev...

Spanish:

http://gorusweb.com/cosas/darksouls_boardgame/Dark_Souls_Rev...

I hope you like it, and I look forward to hearing your opinions.

PD: Also on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSoulsTheBoardGame/comments/7hec...
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Max Jansson
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I am looking for a fast dungeon crawler, maybe this is worth a shot? I have not tried the original rules yet, just got the game. Super late delivery from the kickstarter. :/

Can I play straight from these rules or do I need knowledge from the original rules?

Edit: I see they are only three pages, I guess not. But it shouldn't be that hard to override the base rules then.
 
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Anor Londo
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Festurron wrote:
Hello, everybody. I've been working on a set of house rules to fix the major bugs in this great game. It is intended to be simple by altering as little as possible the components of the game and its spirit.

I have tried the whole campaign with my group of friends and feelings have been very positive.

Here are the download links to pdf (my mother tongue is Spanish, I hope the English version can be understood well):

In English:

http://gorusweb.com/cosas/darksouls_boardgame/Dark_Souls_Rev...

In Spanish:

http://gorusweb.com/cosas/darksouls_boardgame/Dark_Souls_Rev...




I hope you like it, and I look forward to hearing your opinions.

Really nice. Thanks a lot!

Muy currado. Muchas gracias!
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Misfiring Chong
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1. What is normal, blue and orange item mean? Do you mean common, transposed and legendary?

2. Dodge is already a risky maneuver. Even with 4 dice, you will roll all blanks once every 20 rolls. There is no need to make it riskier.

3. I'm also not sure about the changes you made to block/resist. I prefer a penalty to stamina upon a full negate, than having a cap in block/resist value.
 
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Igor Iriarte
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Hi again, I wanted to clarify which are the errors of the game I'm trying to correct:

Errors:

• The base game is too slow. Five hours of playtime bores anyone.

• It's too easy, progress is broken. When characters evolve, no one can hurt you and you make instantkills in every room. The knight is too powerful, has the best defense and can have the best attack as well.

• It's very repetitive with the emptying of the same rooms several times.

Commented rules:

• With more souls per game I find the duration of the game decreases. I have measured the number needed to complete a 6 mission campaign properly.

• The fact that the boss's tile is next to the bonfire makes is extermination faster and less repetitive.

• Andre's store is a solution that many players have come to make the treasure hunt flow faster. In my version the fact that I only have 3 cards minimizes the discussions between players about which item to keep. The price of cards limits the number of blue and orange items in play. The limit of 8 cards in the inventory has the same function.

• Changes in the barrels and tombs, especially making them only give prizes during the encounters, make the encounters more dynamic.

• Resetting the encounters cards improves the fun.

• Changes in the defenses are designed to prevent the game from being too easy. In my opinion, the fun of this game is not to be sure that you will survive to the next room.

• Block has been changed because with so many dice it was difficult to suffer any damage at the higher levels. The advantage of adding only the two best results is that the game design remains intact, and it's still better to roll 10 dice than 3. This way, a lot of blockage occurs, but some damage happens from time to time.

• Dodge was too powerful. Against minions with a die you had a 50% chance of leaving in one piece, with two 75%, three 90%, and four 94%. Too much. Adding just one more die, it keeps you in that 75%, against minions, which is one hit out of four. And it's still useful to have more dice to have a chance against bosses' attacks. Having taken the strain off when you miss the roll, I think it balances its use.

• Level rise of enemies in campaign mode ensures that the game stays tougher level after level. The system of "penetration" affects the characters with increasingly better defense equipment. The dodging characters don't need any more adjustments.

• Placing 3 encounters per boss speeds up the game. Resetting the encounter cards makes it fun to repeat.
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Igor Iriarte
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Evil_X wrote:
I am looking for a fast dungeon crawler, maybe this is worth a shot?

Hello. With these rules each game is about 3 hours. I encourage you to try it of course.

LASTBUTNOTLEAST wrote:
Really nice. Thanks a lot! Muy currado. Muchas gracias!

Gracias a ti, espero que las disfrutes.

Misfiring wrote:
1. What is normal, blue and orange item mean? Do you mean common, transposed and legendary?

Hello. Hi. You're right, my translation was a little lazy. Fixed.

Misfiring wrote:
2. Dodge is already a risky maneuver. Even with 4 dice, you will roll all blanks once every 20 rolls. There is no need to make it riskier.

Wolfram Alpha gives me a 1/16, or 0.6% chance of being damaged.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3%2F6*3%2F6*3%2F6*3%2F...

As I said before, I prefer to increase it to 25% to make it much more exciting.

Misfiring wrote:
3. I'm also not sure about the changes you made to block/resist. I prefer a penalty to stamina upon a full negate, than having a cap in block/resist value.

A point of blockage stamina is still very little damage. Especially if you have an ember or play with herald on the team.

I encourage you to try the rules, maybe you like the feeling after all.
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Stu Turner
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By "reset encounters" do you mean use the same or different encounter cards?

Thanks for the ruleset, I look forward to trying it
 
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Igor Iriarte
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Stuartt wrote:
By "reset encounters" do you mean use the same or different encounter cards?

Just that, different cards. Sorry, the text can be improved. I'm gonna change it.

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Ken Hawkins
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I like your variants, thanks for sharing. By the way, how did you make the document look like that? It looks awesome.

I have a few suggestions that you can possibly make to your variant, if you are interested.

1. Mulligan
- Perhaps change the cost to 1 or 2 souls per player since in a 1-player game, you're making a lot less souls than a 4-player game

2. Resurrect at the bonfire
- So this is more of a question but if you die in an encounter, that encounter doesn't get a new encounter card, correct? Only the ones you have already defeated. And do you also replace the encounter cards when you rest at the bonfire by choice (not by dying)? You could clarify that in the document

3. Dodge
- So this one, I have to agree with the previous response that you don't need to make it riskier. With your rules, a 1 dodge attack is a 75% chance, a 2 dodge attack is 50%, and a 3 dodge attack is 31.25% to successfully dodge. With these odds, I would almost never attempt to dodge a 2 or 3 dodge attack. I already don't dodge enough

Also one more point I want to make. I'm wondering whether the variant you're playing with is allowing you to go through the treasure deck too quickly. I haven't tried your variant so I am not certain but these statements make me think it might be the case:
- "It's too easy, progress is broken. When characters evolve, no one can hurt you and you make instantkills in every room."
- "Changes in the defenses are designed to prevent the game from being too easy."
- "Block has been changed because with so many dice it was difficult to suffer any damage at the higher levels."
- "Dodge was too powerful."
- "I changed the Claymore and Zweihander to orange, because with Andre's store it is very easy to find these powerful objects, and that makes all the games similar."
- "[The Effigy Shield] was practically the best shield in the game, to be so common."

So if you allow the party to go through the treasure deck too quickly, the game could become too easy and repetitive (always using the same weapons every game). Maybe you feel that blocking and dodging is too strong because you always end up with the best armor by the end of the game. Same with the "instantkills," you could be getting good weapons and gems too easily. Also, you go through too much of the treasure deck that you always end up with the Claymore, Zweihander, and Effigy Shield. Maybe you could try limiting the amount of cards you go through in a game to increase the difficulty and not end up with the same weapons every time. Just something to think about.

Overall though, I liked the variant though. It gave me some good ideas to put into mine.
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Igor Iriarte
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kenhawkins13 wrote:
I like your variants, thanks for sharing. By the way, how did you make the document look like that? It looks awesome.

Thanks, I'm glad you like them. I work as a graphic designer and to make the document I have followed two steps:

• Use this app to break base rules pdf: http://www.pdfaid.com/ExtractImages.aspx
• Redo the layout in Sketchapp for Mac, with the typographies: Adobe Caslon, OptimusPrinceps


kenhawkins13 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that you can possibly make to your variant, if you are interested.

1. Mulligan
- Perhaps change the cost to 1 or 2 souls per player since in a 1-player game, you're making a lot less souls than a 4-player game

I do not want "Mulligan" and "Just for you" to be used too much, in fact I have limited it to once per spark and bonfire. I added it because playing with my friends gave me the situation of having released fog door and still have the party very poorly equipped for the boss.

kenhawkins13 wrote:
2. Resurrect at the bonfire
- So this is more of a question but if you die in an encounter, that encounter doesn't get a new encounter card, correct? Only the ones you have already defeated. And do you also replace the encounter cards when you rest at the bonfire by choice (not by dying)? You could clarify that in the document

Right, if you die in a encounter you don't have new prize cards. You're right, the text of my document is wrong, I changed it to "resting at the bonfire".

kenhawkins13 wrote:
3. Dodge
- So this one, I have to agree with the previous response that you don't need to make it riskier. With your rules, a 1 dodge attack is a 75% chance, a 2 dodge attack is 50%, and a 3 dodge attack is 31.25% to successfully dodge. With these odds, I would almost never attempt to dodge a 2 or 3 dodge attack. I already don't dodge enough

Actually, I don't think I've changed the dodge rule that much. In fact, it's only really noticeable against minions. It's rare to have 4 dodge dice, and you can still roll 3 dice for 2-value attacks. Of 4 for 3-value attacks.

You can calculate dice odds by this app:

http://anydice.com
• output [count {4, 5, 6} in 4d6] named "rolling a 4, 5 or 6 on a d6"
• AT LEAST


kenhawkins13 wrote:
Also one more point I want to make. I'm wondering whether the variant you're playing with is allowing you to go through the treasure deck too quickly...

With Andre's shop you go faster for the common treasure, not for the legendary treasure or transposed. In each game without repetitions you draw about 12 cards from the treasure deck. Think of the deck as having more than 60 cards, and we only place in “5 oranges” and “5 blues per player”.
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Ken Hawkins
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Festurron wrote:

kenhawkins13 wrote:
I have a few suggestions that you can possibly make to your variant, if you are interested.

1. Mulligan
- Perhaps change the cost to 1 or 2 souls per player since in a 1-player game, you're making a lot less souls than a 4-player game

I do not want the Mulligan to be used too much, in fact I have limited it to once per bonfire. I added it because playing with my friends gave me the situation of having released fog door and still have the party very poorly equipped for the boss.
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough here. What I meant to say was keep the Mulligan to once per spark. However, change the cost to perform Mulligan to -1 souls for a 1-player game, -2 souls for a 2-player game, -3 souls for a 3-player game, and -4 souls for a 4-player game or something like that. This is so that the cost to perform Mulligan is balanced on how many players you have playing the game, since the party get more souls with more players


Festurron wrote:

kenhawkins13 wrote:
3. Dodge
- So this one, I have to agree with the previous response that you don't need to make it riskier. With your rules, a 1 dodge attack is a 75% chance, a 2 dodge attack is 50%, and a 3 dodge attack is 31.25% to successfully dodge. With these odds, I would almost never attempt to dodge a 2 or 3 dodge attack. I already don't dodge enough

Actually, I don't think I've changed the dodge rule that much. In fact, it's only really noticeable against minions. It's rare to have 4 dodge dice, and you can still roll 3 dice for 2-value attacks. Of 4 for 3-value attacks.

You're right. Now that I think about it, you didn't change the rules that much. I will keep playing and I may try it out your Dodge and Block variants if I start to get the feeling that they are too strong.

Festurron wrote:

kenhawkins13 wrote:
Also one more point I want to make. I'm wondering whether the variant you're playing with is allowing you to go through the treasure deck too quickly...

With Andre's shop you go faster for the common treasure, not for the legendary treasure or transposed. In each game without repetitions you draw about 12 cards from the treasure deck. Think of the deck as having more than 60 cards, and we only place in 5 oranges and 5 blues per boss.

Okay, then maybe I was wrong. I wasn't sure if you drew ~12 cards during a game or ~50 cards during a game.
 
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Tobias B.
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I don't get how your store works.

- After cards have been bought will new cards be added to replace them up to three (or only two cards after every encounter)?
- When does the shop reset (after a boss or normal encounter or resting)?
- What does an ember cost? If every player has one will every drawn ember discarded for a new card?



 
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Igor Iriarte
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Hey, thanks for the answer. I thought text was better understood. I'll think about how to improve it.

Mad Doc wrote:
- After cards have been bought will new cards be added to replace them up to three (or only two cards after every encounter)?
Only two cards after every encounter. If you buy one, you leave a hole in the store, that's all.
Mad Doc wrote:
- When does the shop reset (after a boss or normal encounter or resting)?
In the next initial setup. You don't need to remember how the store was the next day you play.
Mad Doc wrote:
- What does an ember cost? If every player has one will every drawn ember discarded for a new card?
The ember card is common so it costs two souls. If everyone has it equipped, buying it has no effect. But might be a good idea to keep it in Andre's store. You can always choose the cards to discard and keep.
 
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Tobias B.
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Okay, now I understood this. Thanks
 
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Igor Iriarte
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Big Update 1.03

I've created a new mode of survival called Endless Dungeon. Where the most advanced players can find challenges at their level. 

I hope you like it.

Edit:

1.10

I've reworked everything, added a general difficulty table, and made a lot of little adjustments after testing quite a few times the campaign and survival mode.
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Juan Cierva
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Hi there,

I would be grateful if you could clarify some of the rules. Specifically:

Fast Play
Souls: More per encounter, in each repetition only half are earned and double it per defeated boss.
1P = 4 souls, 2P = 8 souls, 3P = 12 souls, 4P = 16 souls


What do you mean by "in each repetition only half are earned"? Would encounters earn you fewer souls after resting at the bonfire (regardless of dying or resting on purpose)? E.g. 4P > 1st run = 16 souls/encounter, 2nd run = 8 souls/encounter, 3rd run = 4 souls/encounter?

And by "double it per defeated boss"? Are you referring to repetitions as well or just doubling the amount of souls specified in the core rule set (e.g. 2 souls per character per remaining spark instead of 1 soul)?


Less Grinding
Objects in encounters:
Grave: You need to spend 1 energy to get in and read it. During the encounter.
Chest: two treasures at the end of the encounter normally. Or a mimic...


Given that gravestones block movement, how do you interact with them as described? Would you spend stamina during your character's activation anywhere you are, maybe from nodes adjacent to the gravestone only...?

With regard to opening chests, do you mean deciding at random whether you get 2 treasures or nothing at all?


Less Grinding
Rest at the bonfire: Place new encounter cards of the same level. Keep chests and graves.


I understand keeping the benefits from graves you had previously read (despite the corresponding encounter cards being replaced with other ones); however, what about keeping chests? Do you mean not opening them if the same encounter cards are drawn again (which would kind of stick to the core rule), or the other way round and always getting brand new chests?


Thank you in advance! Y por cierto, muy buen trabajo con la extensión. Pinta muy interesante. Enhorabuena!
 
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Igor Iriarte
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Hello Mr. Cabezazo.

I'll try to clear your doubts.

Souls earned (4 players campaign):

- 16 souls to solve a encounter for the first time
- 8 souls for repeating an encounter already resolved. I want you to move forward, not repeat the same thing over and over again. New cards in the store should help you move forward without wanting to repeat too much. 8 souls are the minimum number of souls you can win by resolving a repeated encounter.
- 32 souls for defeating a boss

Objects:

- Gravestones: Spend 1 stamina from adjacent node to read it.
- Chest: No revised rules

Keeping chests:

I mean, you can't open more than one chest per room. So if you've already opened a chest in a room, keep that chest and don't put another one in. This stops Grinding.

I hope this helps you and I wish you enjoy the revised rules.

Muchas gracias por el interés . Si tienes cualquier otra duda estaré encantado de responderla.

Edit:

New update 1.17
 
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Bene Garcia
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Tio, muchisimas gracias por las reglas tan curradas, se nota que amas el juego y lo has testeado bien, he hecho una partida con tus reglas y son la polla!
Un saludo y gracias por el curro que te has pegao en serio.

kisskisskisskiss
 
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Igor Iriarte
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Thank you very much for your words @Bene_26 modest. I hope you don't mind if I take the liberty of translating your compliments for the rest of the forum.

@Bene_26 said:
“Dude, thank you so much for dedicating so much work to making the rules, it shows that you love the game and you have tested it well. I've tried playing a game with your rules and they're great. A greeting and thanks for the effort you've put into this game, really.”
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Igor Iriarte
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New update 1.18

I've made a rule change inspired by the idea of @Arcueidtoo, which speeds up the game a lot and avoids an hour and a half of repetitive play per game.

Rest at the bonfire:

Successful encounters: Keep cards face up, you don't need to repeat the fight, they are considered an automatic success.
 
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Corey Scott
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The successful encounters rule is something my group do as well. If we breeze past a room 1st or 2nd time through we just skip it because at that point you really are just going through the motions and dragging the game out. Its cool in the video games and I like that Steamforged tried to make it work but it just doesn't translate well to board games. BTW your rules are great I'm looking forward to trying them out when my Kalameet and Gaping Dragon expansions come in. Much appreciated.
 
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Dejawho
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Festurron wrote:
New update 1.18

I've made a rule change inspired by the idea of @Arcueidtoo, which speeds up the game a lot and avoids an hour and a half of repetitive play per game.

Rest at the bonfire:

Successful encounters: Keep cards face up, you don't need to repeat the fight, they are considered an automatic success.

Before starting to use variants I've often used this rule because just repeat over and over the same encounters is just boring. Farming doesn't work well in this board game.
However removing totally farming from DS TBG is like to cut half of the gameplay, it became just an item deck browsing game.
To me the best combination of variants is:
-Your fast play rules, this just act well to reduce the grinding but don't remove it. The only variants is having the boss room always placed adiacent to the bonfire tile and the fog open only when the room are all cleared at the same time and remains opened for the rest of the game.
-Your less grinding - barrel break rules, but with the blue dice minus one as result for souls and with result three you get the item. I've done this variant to have the case where you just don't find anything.
-When you use a spark an reset the tiels reshufle the enconters redrawing the the same amount of the required levels and placing them like the initial setup, but starting from the second exploration the treasure don't respawn even if the encounter is changed (not sure about barrels and gravestone). I've read this rule is some variants (can't find where tough, I was sure it was from yours but can't find it) and it is not very dark souls styles but keep the game more interesting.

The main idea is to keep the grinding but without exasperate it and when you have it at least it has some variation.
Also from your rules I really like the store and the two handed weapon reroll.

A variant I was thinking about was having a d12 or a d20 with each number corresponding to an effect for the current room. When you have an encounter except for the boss room you roll the dice and you can have bonus or malus depending on the result for the rest of the encounter. But it is really hard to find effects that doesn't make the room too hard or too easy in some corner cases, so for now it is just an idea.
 
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Igor Iriarte
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@odarren91

Thank you very much for your words. When these new expansions come out I will update my rules if necessary to fit in well with them.

@dejawho
You're right, at first I used the rule of replacing the encounter cards with new ones, but my playgroup simply can't tolerate repeating so many fights after losing to a boss. And we have seen that the new rule is more fun for all of us. In 3 hours we can fight two bosses and that encourages us to play more games.

It's true that the game could use more variety. I was thinking that something like Eldritch Horror's encounter cards would do this game a lot of good.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2521072/eldritch-horror-stra...
 
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Dejawho
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Festurron wrote:

You're right, at first I used the rule of replacing the encounter cards with new ones, but my playgroup simply can't tolerate repeating so many fights after losing to a boss. And we have seen that the new rule is more fun for all of us. In 3 hours we can fight two bosses and that encourages us to play more games.

It's true that the game could use more variety. I was thinking that something like Eldritch Horror's encounter cards would do this game a lot of good.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2521072/eldritch-horror-stra...

Yep, for this reason I've changed your fast play rules forcing to have the boss tile always adiacent to the bonfire tile. As your rule say "the fog gate opens when all the rooms are cleared and stay open until the end of the game". Doing this if you die with the boss you have only two possibility:
-You can retry the boss immediatly because the fog gate is already opened, so no grinding.
-You can re-explore the rooms but since the encounter was re-shuffled you get something new, so here you grind a bit but at least you don't have to repeat the exact same encounter of the previous exploration.


the eldritch horror cards seems a good idea, I tought something similar but in the style the dead of winter crossroads card, that are complex events with choices.
At first I tought they could seems something similar to a subquest, something like the card introduce the subquest with a bit of lore and the instructions to setup a tile aside of the game, specifing also which enemies/barrels and stuff will be there. The players can then accept or refuse the quest. If they refuse the quest is lost but with no loss for the players, if they accept they are moved in this tile and if they win they do what is written in the card on the win section (probably get a specific item or souls)and then return in the bonfire tile and continue with the main game(obviously without using sparks). Otherwise if they lose then they do what is written in the lost condition (tipically return to the bonfire like dying in any other tile but it can vary).

I'd really like a system like that and the main advantage is that setting up a tile aside from the main game (or more thant one) and resolve the event there will not break any existing
mechanics on the main game. But to work well it need a lot of cards and doing this require a lot of time. For this reason I've thinked about the dice variant to bring a bit of variety without became crazy.
 
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Igor Iriarte
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dejawho wrote:

Yep, for this reason I've changed your fast play rules forcing to have the boss tile always adiacent to the bonfire tile. As your rule say "the fog gate opens when all the rooms are cleared and stay open until the end of the game". Doing this if you die with the boss you have only two possibility:
-You can retry the boss immediatly because the fog gate is already opened, so no grinding.
-You can re-explore the rooms but since the encounter was re-shuffled you get something new, so here you grind a bit but at least you don't have to repeat the exact same encounter of the previous exploration.

Yeah, I used to think that was a great idea. And I put it in my previous version of the rules, where I also placed the boss's tile next to the fireplace. But since it is not necessary to repeat the encounters now, I see no need for this.

The problem is that the bosses will probably kill you the first time because you're poorly equipped. Which forces you to repeat encounters to get more souls and fight back against the boss with a better equipment. This whole process was very tedious for all the people I played with.

dejawho wrote:

the eldritch horror cards seems a good idea, I tought something similar but in the style the dead of winter crossroads card, that are complex events with choices.
At first I tought they could seems something similar to a subquest, something like the card introduce the subquest with a bit of lore and the instructions to setup a tile aside of the game, specifing also which enemies/barrels and stuff will be there. The players can then accept or refuse the quest. If they refuse the quest is lost but with no loss for the players, if they accept they are moved in this tile and if they win they do what is written in the card on the win section (probably get a specific item or souls)and then return in the bonfire tile and continue with the main game(obviously without using sparks). Otherwise if they lose then they do what is written in the lose condition (tipically return to the bonfire like dying in any other tile but it can vary).

I'd really like a system like that and the main advantage is that setting up a tile aside from the main game (or more thant one) and resolve the event there will not break the any existing
mechanics on the main game. But to work well it need a lot of cards and doing this require a lot of time. For this reason I've thinked about the dice variant to bring a bit of variety without became crazy.

What you're saying might be interesting.

I had thought that apart from barrels, and graves, it would be nice if you found famous people from the Dark Souls universe kidnapped and had to prevent enemies from killing them. If you get it, you will be offered some reward after a conversation with several options like eldritch that pulled from the stats of dark soul. You could use the miniatures of the invader expansion for this. I get excited just thinking about it.


 
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