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Subject: So not into this... (edited) rss

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I love the idea of combining a character deck with a lineage deck with a location deck. The mechanics seem really cool.

That's where it ends for me.

The art is all dark, gross, and generally miserable (I get that it's about war, etc, but it's still a game).

Plus, one female character out of eight?

Sigh...


In case it matters, I am a 43 year old straight male who happens to have an appreciation for equality and thinks it's pretty obvious why more girls and women don't play games.

Is this the same company that made two-sided (male and female) character cards for Hero Realms?


Edit: It's not 8 characters, it's 6 so far. However, the one female character is actually a thrall to an ancient "master" so it's a sausage-fest after all. whistle
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Debbie Moynihan
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Re: So not into this...
I'm a woman that works at the company and I love love love the art in this game. There are so many gorgeous pieces of art in this game. The theme isn't for everyone, and if it isn't for you, I hope you can still enjoy playing Hero Realms.
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Jack Francisco
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Re: So not into this...
Personally, I love the darkness of the art. It's a nice departure from cartoony, sticky-sweet, stuff. It would be nice to have more female characters, though. Double-sided seems like the obvious way to go.
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Eric Bridge
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Re: So not into this...
I agree with the OP.

Not to be "prudish", but this choice of artwork and theme will lose them a lot of sales, my own included. For example, I can't see Tom Vasel liking this. "Dark" doesn't mean it has to be grotesque, deformed and indecent. So it's a no-go for me and perhaps others of various faiths in this regard first.

And then there are the scantily clad females again ...

All this talk out there about how horrible it is for us to objectify women, and yet this continues to be a predominant theme in board games. Sex sells - I get that part, but are guys buying board games for this reason? It's just, for me personally, it seems like a double-standard.

And again, just from a marketing standpoint, I don't get it. And I played D&D in High School and enjoy fantasy games - still loving Gloomhaven right now after about 50 scenarios. I would SO be interested in this game if it weren't for the "darkness" of it all...

Oh well.
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Peter Scholtz
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Re: So not into this...
Dear ZUR13L,thank you very much for your feedback. As a writer and creator of the game i created mostly monstrosities as you can see. I am very careful to design ladies in such interpretation. Sure they will be in future, but i need to be sure that the concept is carefully interpreted.
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Jack Francisco
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Re: So not into this...
ebridge wrote:
For example, I can't see Tom Vasel liking this.

And then there are the scantily clad females again ...


Well, he also doesn't like Chaos in the Old World for a similar reason - his opinion doesn't stop it from being an amazing game.

And to your second point...shake...I went through the whole KSer page and saw MAYBE two instances of what you're talking about - 1.) Crone's Puppet, well she's a puppet. That's the idea. Personally, I think she looks wicked. 2.) Council of Three - which to me is a stretch.

It's ok to not like something because it isn't in your aesthetic wheelhouse, but not everything is immediately offensive, either.
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Rob Winslow
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Re: So not into this...
Quote:
Well, he also doesn't like Chaos in the Old World for a similar reason - his opinion doesn't stop it from being an amazing game.


If one goes only by video reviewers, then one is going to miss out on a lot of good games.

Too bad for them, I guess.

As for the 1 female character, I bought the game One Deck Dungeon and really dig it. I never thought about the fact that it has all female characters until an acquaintance (I would not call him a friend, LOL), who fancies himself a brave SJW (though, like most, he lives in his parents' basement) pointed it out to me.

I guess it's great to have 1st World problems like the sex of game characters, eh?

Quote:
It's ok to not like something because it isn't in your aesthetic wheelhouse, but not everything is immediately offensive, either.


Absolutely. Too often folks are just looking to be offended, not realizing (or caring) that their opinion is just that, their opinion, and others don't automatically feel that way.
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Jack Francisco
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Re: So not into this...
Just had this discussion with a co-worker yesterday. We couldn't understand how some people get SO mad when you believe something opposite of them and cannot possibly understand why you feel that way.
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Justin Jones
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Re: So not into this...
senorcoo wrote:
Personally, I love the darkness of the art. It's a nice departure from cartoony, sticky-sweet, stuff. It would be nice to have more female characters, though. Double-sided seems like the obvious way to go.


I'm in this camp. I feel the number of games that are more light hearted out number games with darker themes. It's refreshing to see something different. Seems there is a lack of real horror themed games.

I don't believe the art work is going to cost them sales. The grotesque monstrosities are what piqued my interest. Personally, my core game group would probably be more inclined to give this a go based solely on the theme.



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Jack Francisco
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Re: So not into this...
And it's also ok that not every game be played with our kids. The same way as I don't let them watch programs that I feel are inappropriate for them, I handle games the same way.
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Jacob Schoberg
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Re: So not into this...
brandysta wrote:
As for the 1 female character, I bought the game One Deck Dungeon and really dig it. I never thought about the fact that it has all female characters until an acquaintance (I would not call him a friend, LOL), who fancies himself a brave SJW (though, like most, he lives in his parents' basement) pointed it out to me.

I guess it's great to have 1st World problems like the sex of game characters, eh?


I guess it's great to have 99% of games target and include characters of your gender, eh?
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Elliott Harding
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Re: So not into this...
The art looks great and it was what originally caught my eye. Keep it gritty and dark.

I will watch the videos and if the game play looks good, I will back this game for sure.
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Michael Shuck
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Re: So not into this...
The art is fantastic, well within the bounds of acceptable tastes at retail.

The gender of the fantasy characters doesn't matter.

It's just a game.

White Wizard Games has a very good record delivering quality titles through Kickstarter.
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Shane
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Re: So not into this...
OP, there are plenty of women who appreciate dark themes and art. Please don't presume to know what women want, regardless of your no doubt profound heterosexual prowess.

EDIT: Wow, I'm a snarky a-hole who completely misread the tone of the original post. Hey OP, I apologize.

Not deleting my original post, for posterity, and for proof, should anyone need it, that I can be an occasional turdnugget.
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Ben G
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Re: So not into this...
ShaneXtopher wrote:
OP, there are plenty of women who appreciate dark themes and art. Please don't presume to know what women want, regardless of your no doubt profound heterosexual prowess.


Any person is allowed to value gender equality regardless of gender.
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Re: So not into this...
ZUR13L wrote:
The art is all dark, gross, and generally miserable (I get that it's about war, etc, but it's still a game).

Sorcerer looks really fun, I have been excited about it for a while. Never saw the cards up close until the campaign today. But I agree here. I wish there was a variety in the game's artwork - I'm not really into dark and gross 24/7. The inspiration of different history/mythology from around the world is so great but it just looks like Grimdark Fantasy #1000.
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Adam Daily

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Re: So not into this...
I love the grotesque artwork. I'm personally tired of glittery, sparkly wizard bullshit in fantasy games. I'm a big fan of horror so I'm more likely to Kickstart this based on that alone as opposed to it being another game that looks like World of Warcraft.

That said I agree with others that I'm bored with game artwork full of generic white guys. I'm a generic white guy who would love to play as a black woman, or a Latino trans person in a way that isn't a token representation of either. For people who aren't generic white guys, I'd imagine it would get exhausting opening up game after game and finding no characters that are like you at all. The board game community is especially diverse; there's no good reason not to mix it up a little.

Anyway, despite the fact that I wish there was a more diverse cast here, cool artwork.
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Bad Mojo
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Re: So not into this...
Great. Another post degrading into gender equality politics about a fictional world involving mystical monsters. Every game and medium does not need to include every target audience. Does Pokémon make you feel excluded because there are no white/black/male/female/hetero/trans?
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Rob Winslow
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Re: So not into this...
Right on, Bad Mojo.

This whiny stuff is so tiring.
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Adam Daily

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Re: So not into this...
For me, it's a practical matter. For one, it's boring and tired to not have some racial/gender diversity. I don't find it offensive, I just find it lazy. More importantly though, I'd like for more people to get into board games, but I realize it's hard when there are tons of potential gamers that don't have anyone to relate with in a board game. Games are supposed to be immersive, so being able to relate with a character is a part of that.

But regardless, just as you said earlier, people have different preferences and opinions. I'd prefer to have a diverse cast, but that's just my viewpoint. Just because that's something I'd like in a game doesn't make it whiny.
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john bernardo
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Re: So not into this...
I think the complaints have forced me to pledge the game.

And remember we all vote with our dollars.
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Adam Daily

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Re: So not into this...
To be clear, I'm probably still going to Kickstart this game because it looks fun and the art is cool. The lack of diversity is a downside for me, but it isn't a deal breaker. I just want board game devs to know that there are lots of buyers that like diverse character design and are willing to support it with dollars, that's all
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Michael Shuck
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Re: So not into this...
I believe there are expansions planned and we haven't seen any stretch goals yet.
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Will Baker
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Re: So not into this...
I was looking forward to this but when I saw the art and the satanic images it’s a huge pass for me.
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Jill Tarchala
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Re: So not into this...
I agree, I think they did an amazing job on the artwork even if it's too gruesome and dark for my personal taste, you can see the effort and the artistic aethestic apopeal, but I can't get into the demonic and Satanic theme either. It's just too much...

Also, I tried to look beyond that (figured I'd just play with the other characters), but their instructional video is over an hour long, and I definitely lost interest; it was quite painful to watch.

OH, well.

They definitely have a high success rate of enjoyable games; I guess it's a case of you can't please everyone all the time.
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