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Subject: RIVER ROAD rss

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Freddy Dekker
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We had our first practice game today and had fun, but the whole thing came to a screeching halt when we realised we'd forgotten de winter turn. Never mind, we've learned the basics and will enjoy starting over tomorrow.

This game could do with a short overview of sequel of the turns.

Anyway, we have a question about the rivers.


So you can follow a river and make two moves.
Now we wonder if this counts for all units.

If you have a unit which can move 1, is this also allowed to move 2 hexes along a river?
And would this mean that a movement allowed 2 can move 4 along a river?





 
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Chris Rice
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There's a FAQ in the file section that answers this but I haven't been able to cut and paste from it. There are other useful files there too.
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Barry Miller
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sagitar wrote:
This game could do with a short overview of sequel of the turns.

You're right! Whenever I play, I find this document extremely useful! It's from Columbia Games website:
http://www.columbiagames.com/resources/3021/libertyturntrack...

sagitar wrote:
Anyway, we have a question about the rivers.

So you can follow a river and make two moves.
Now we wonder if this counts for all units.

If you have a unit which can move 1, is this also allowed to move 2 hexes along a river?
And would this mean that a movement allowed 2 can move 4 along a river?

What's missing from Rule 5.6, is the word "All" in the front of the first sentence. It should say, "All blocks can move two hexes up or down a river..."
So a unit with a movement allowance of "1" can move two spaces along a river. And a unit with a movement allowance of "2" can still move [only] two spaces along a river.

Reference: FAQ, page 3

And finally, if you haven't gotten to it yet, you should really download and read the "officially approved" FAQ before playing again! I made several annotations in my rulebook based on what I found in the FAQ. For instance, your exact question above is discussed on page 3.

The FAQ can be found in the Files Library. Here's the link: Liberty FAQ

Tis really is a fun game which hasn't gotten the attention that it deserves for what it is.

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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Barry, that was EXTREMELY helpfull.

Would you happen to know if some clever person created a battle board for this?

I bought this one after realising my eldest enjoyed block games.
Personally I wasn't to keen on RICHARD III and HAMMER OF THE SCOTS, I'm more the 'pushing counters around on a mapboard' type.

One of these games is in three phases and at the end of every phase all the blocks you've killed simply return and that just seem weird and like making things pointless.

But as said, realising this type of game was going to get played with the kids, I went and bought LIBERTY aswell.

Its been sitting on the shelf ever since as things as school started to interfere and we never found the time, until yesterday when I convinced my youngest to have a go and we had great fun.

At first the strangely narrow shaped board took some getting used to for me, but it is growing on me fast.
This may be the best game of the three mentioned.

I also like the advanced combat rules - bajonet charge etc.- and plan to use them right from the start as I think they give extra historical flavour to the battles.




 
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Freddy Dekker
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Had a quick look through the Faq file and the one below is very confusing.





Q: There are multiple references in the rules (in the retreat and regroup rules, e.g.) to
hexes that are “friendly but free of enemy blocks.” Why is “free of enemy blocks”
specified? Isn’t a friendly hex by definition free of enemy blocks?
A: Due to the non-instantaneous hex control rules, with control changing at the end of turn, it is
quite possible – and even common – for friendly hexes to contain enemy blocks. Consider, for
example, the situation where a blue unit starts a turn in a red town hex. At the beginning of the
turn – and for the entire turn, in fact - the hex is blue-controlled (i.e., blue-friendly).

If the blue
unit moves away, and red units move in later that same turn, then the hex becomes a bluefriendly
hex that is occupied by enemy blocks (red units). (As an aside, note that neither player
could retreat/regroup units to such a hex. Blue units can’t retreat/regroup to the hex because it
contains enemy blocks, and red units can’t retreat/regroup to the hex because it is bluecontrolled.)


Maybe I reading it wrong, but somehow this doesn't seem right.
If bleu troops leave a read town, doesn't it automatically become pro-red again.

In the example above where red towns are bleu friendly but red occupied, how can you ever keep track?




 
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Chris Rice
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Q: There are multiple references in the rules (in the retreat and regroup rules, e.g.) to
hexes that are “friendly but free of enemy blocks.” Why is “free of enemy blocks”
specified? Isn’t a friendly hex by definition free of enemy blocks?


No. Most hexes are only friendly if occupied by your troops. However, certain town hexes have a default friendliness to one side or another which is only temporarily changed by enemy occupation. So I think the phrase “friendly but free of enemy blocks", has some value.

Hex control only changes at the end of the turn so if a blue block occupies a red town at the start of a turn and leaves during the turn, the town does not become red friendly again till the end of the turn. This might seem awkward to keep track of, but due to the low block count and limited number of actions each turn I've not found it a problem in the few games I've played. You could always use a marker of some sort if it really bothers you.
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Chris,

I reckon I have to read that a couple of times for it to sink and be fully understood.


Mainly cause I missunderstood for starters that a town is friendly to the coulor it has, so if no enemy is there, it will be friendly again.

Might be an idea to keep track with this via some kind of counter.
Granted, low number of blocks, but when you're caught up in the events, it's easy to forget.

I mean, we did manage to forget the winter turn in our first game, so probably would have no problem forgetting this aswell.


What game is that avetar from, looks like some kind of elf...
 
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Barry Miller
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sagitar wrote:
Would you happen to know if some clever person created a battle board for this?

Hmmm... either you've seen my Battle Boards in the Files Library and are being nice , or you haven't seen my Battle Boards, in which case, here they are:

This file is a collection of Battle Mats which are tailored to each hex's peculiar hexside geography for every hex on the map: Tailored Battle Mats for Liberty

And this file is a simpler universal Battle Mat, for use with all hexes: Universal Battle Mat for Liberty



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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Barry, appreciate it, that must have been a lot of work.
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Barry Miller
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Yeah, I created the "tailored" battle mats after reading the rules, but before actually playing the game! If I had bothered to play the game first, I would've only put forth the effort to create the single, "universal" battle mat. My gameplay experience proved that's all you really need.

Teaches me for getting too enthusiastic before realizing the actual requirements! But still, the tailored mats add a greater level of specialization to each mat, so I use them anyway.


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Freddy Dekker
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I wanted to translate your file, but as it does not allow changes, I just went and re-wrote it. It's not that much work I just can get those block size numbers in my file.

Of course I'm checking things as I translate them and have come up with some questions.

For starters I think we are playing the card phase wrong.
We start the year and use the first card to determine who goes first.
Than however we discard that card and so every year we only use 4.

It is how we played it in the other Columbia block games and unless it is how it's supposed to work in one of those, we have played that wrong all along.
But now I suddenly realise this may be wrong and you must simply use the card for actions after you've used it to decide 1st player.


Another thing which suddenly confused me as I recall reading somewhere, maybe its in the FAQ, about attacking the West Indies.

Now I was sure I'd read somewhere that you are not supposed to attack the West Indies, but of course now that I'm trying to find where it says so, I can't.shake


oh wait 9.1 they can be occupied only by French or english blocks.
I assumed that meant you can't attack it, but now I'm not so sure.

So you can attack the troops on the Isles?
If so I reckon that only can happen after the French enter the war.

As I wrote this I wondered about the point of the Isles and taking another look I suddenly came to realise that it actually has supply vallue. Which could be handy if you have to move stuff from the atlantic to a safe port for winter.

Would you believe, after setting up the game we totaly forgot about the isles? With the blocks on them we totaly overlooked the points.
That makes the Brittish position a bit less troublesome as in our first game they exactly had the points the must have.
So now we've got 3 to spare.

 
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Caleb
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Each card play determines the order of play for THAT card play only, so the order of play can change multiple times throughout a single year. You never use a card ONLY to determine order of play without using it for order/supply (or whatever it's called in Liberty).

You can indeed attack and take over the Indies. The French troops there cannot move or attack until the French enter the war, but the British could attack them. They would have to siphon off troops from North America to have a decent chance at it, in which case they'd be weaker there.
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Freddy Dekker
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So played that totaly wrong than.

We sacrificed one card and use the result for the remainder of the year.
So if you won that first card play, you'd be player 1 for that year.

Logical of course cause we wrongly dicarded the one we used to establish first player.

One other thing I'm still struggling with is this friendly town issue.
I've re-read this a couple of times, unfortunatly it is not mentioned in the rules to clarify.



So please bare with me while I explain how I understand this to work.




At the beginning of the game the map is filled with blue and red dotted towns.
Initially I understood this colour to indicate what side they were on.

As I understand that now, in a way that may be correct as long as the dots are left vacant
However to complicate things some bleu dots find themselves occupied by a red block at the start of the game, which apparently makes them a red town, doesn’t it.

If the red block leaves at some point the bleu dot still remains a red friendly town and stays so until at the beginning of a turn it finds a bleu block on it, in which case it returns to being bleu friendly.

Hope I got that right.
To make it make sense to me I explain this as the population of towns being devided asto which side they are on. So if a town is occupied by red at the start of the year or is that turn? the pro red citizens take charge of the town.
If during the year or turn, must check, a bleu block enters town there is a lot of chaos and only if it stays long enough, will the town change alliance.

So if a red block starts the year/turn on a bleu dot and moves of, it remains red in alliance.
If during that year/turn a bleu block wanders into town, it still is a red dot.
If the bleu block decides not to hang around for long and leave again, it still remains a red dot.

Only if bleu sticks around long enough to still be there at the end of the year/turn, that is when the town changes back to bleu friendly.

So in fact the colours of towns don’t mean anything, after all during winter you can go to any town nearby and get supplied.
Hm no, that probably should be friendly town...


Indian towns, are they alwasy considered red unless occupied?
I recall occupation can be the dead of a tribe at the end of a year.
As he occupier than has to disband I suppose it's not possible for an idian town to be occupied at the start of a year.


I will now go and try and find out if it was in fact year or turn and also must go and find some kind of markers to indicate what current colour a town is.

Fingers crossed I’ve now ‘got it’.
It’s one of those typical things that don’t make sense until you’ve figured it out.
 
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Freddy Dekker
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No, got it wrong didn't I.

Red block on bleu dot, remains red when the red block leaves.

If at the start of the new turn, no red block has returned to it.
the bleu dot automatically become bleu friendly again.

So no need to occupy it with a bleu block afterall.

I think that must be how it works...
 
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Caleb
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Hex control is one of the least consistent and most annoying things to track in the "Hammer of the Scots Family" of Columbia Games.

The color of towns/cities denotes who has control when they are vacant. So blue locations will revert to American control if left vacant, even if the British start the game in them.

HOWEVER, hex control does not change till the END of a TURN (not the whole year, just the turn of a single card play). So a player could move his units out of an "enemy" town to fight a battle, lose the battle, and would be allowed to retreat to the now-vacant enemy town because hex control does not change till the end of the turn, after the combat phase.

Similarly, if the first player in a turn leaves a town empty, it is still considered friendly to him, despite its color, during the second player's movement phase.

Indian towns are no different in that they are treated as friendly to the British. At the end of a year during winter attrition, I guess if the Americans got a leader into one of the Indian towns, it could supply itself there, since there is no exception given for Indian towns in the "Winter Attrition" section. The only reason for the American player to do that is to eliminate the corresponding Indian block per the last paragraph of 11.3. There is probably no other strategic reason for the American player to go out of his way to garrison an Indian location at the end of the year.

Hope this helps!
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Caleb,

I think it is slowly starting to dawn on me.

So that is why someone said no reminders are needed, cause it is only one turn and you'll know where you came from.

Good catch on the leaders.
I had not considered having them winter in an one supply town, but of course them being self suplying that would work.
Also they could supply a number of troops in an unsupplied town.

Totaly missed that.

But I was at least right in thinking at for winter quarters it doesn't matter what collour a town is.
This is only important for the retreat issue.

Okay, must now go find my youngest and give this another go.

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Freddy Dekker
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bgm1961 wrote:

Yeah, I created the "tailored" battle mats after reading the rules, but before actually playing the game! If I had bothered to play the game first, I would've only put forth the effort to create the single, "universal" battle mat. My gameplay experience proved that's all you really need.

Teaches me for getting too enthusiastic before realizing the actual requirements! But still, the tailored mats add a greater level of specialization to each mat, so I use them anyway.




Battle mat and rules sequence printed and we will no give them a test run.
 
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