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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Great game with boring combat system rss

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laurent
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I love this game with all its cards, worlds, enemies, encounters..
but what an annoying system for the combats.
You loose so much time throwing the dice and compare results

Where are my heroquest dice
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ScottL
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LOL With the shields and skulls... Ya, I think I still have a few of those kicking around in my random dice bag.

(not my image)
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Njorl
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I used to play RollMaster Middle Earth RPG.

Dice, don't talk to me about dice.
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Jee Fu
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You're not really playing Brimstone until you're digging through your couch looking for old Monopoly D6s because you just wandered into an Indian Burial Ground and you need to save against 60 Horror Hits. And you f-ing refuse to not roll all your dice at once.

- Jee
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Craig Nicholls
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Yes, the combat system really lets down an otherwise great game.
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J.J.
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As a long time Champions player, the dice rolling in this game is noooooooothing.

I also don't think there's much involved in "comparing results" since you are only rolling vs target numbers. YMMV
 
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Jonathan Allen
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How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.
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Klutz
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Grauenwolf wrote:
How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.


How do people who DON'T do it this way do it?
 
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Jee Fu
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KevBelisle wrote:
Grauenwolf wrote:
How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.


How do people who DON'T do it this way do it?

This is mostly how it's done. There are cases where this won't work. Not all Enemy Hits - even from the same Enemy - are created equal. Some of them do extra damage/effects on unblocked 6s. Plus, if you have any items that prevent/alter damage from one "source" (like an Amulet of Kotak) you have to keep track of which dice belong to which Enemy so you can track which Defense/Armor rolls go with which Enemy, so you can figure out the total amount of Damage each Enemy actually did to you rather than just totally the amount for one Enemy Group. You have to do this if the Enemies are poisonous as well (like BogBats) so you can see which Enemies in the group actually did damage to you so you can know how many poison counters to take.

- Jee
 
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Arthur Peterson
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HORRIBLE combat. This game could have been so good!
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Adria D
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Inspector Jee wrote:
KevBelisle wrote:
Grauenwolf wrote:
How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.


How do people who DON'T do it this way do it?

This is mostly how it's done. There are cases where this won't work. Not all Enemy Hits - even from the same Enemy - are created equal. Some of them do extra damage/effects on unblocked 6s. Plus, if you have any items that prevent/alter damage from one "source" (like an Amulet of Kotak) you have to keep track of which dice belong to which Enemy so you can track which Defense/Armor rolls go with which Enemy, so you can figure out the total amount of Damage each Enemy actually did to you rather than just totally the amount for one Enemy Group. You have to do this if the Enemies are poisonous as well (like BogBats) so you can see which Enemies in the group actually did damage to you so you can know how many poison counters to take.

- Jee


You can still do a similar thing by using different colored dice for multiple monsters attacking. For special attacks, swap out the special hits for different colored dice before rolling for defense, then keep dice color-coded for the corresponding armor rolls as well.
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Jee Fu
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Adria wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
KevBelisle wrote:
Grauenwolf wrote:
How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.


How do people who DON'T do it this way do it?

This is mostly how it's done. There are cases where this won't work. Not all Enemy Hits - even from the same Enemy - are created equal. Some of them do extra damage/effects on unblocked 6s. Plus, if you have any items that prevent/alter damage from one "source" (like an Amulet of Kotak) you have to keep track of which dice belong to which Enemy so you can track which Defense/Armor rolls go with which Enemy, so you can figure out the total amount of Damage each Enemy actually did to you rather than just totally the amount for one Enemy Group. You have to do this if the Enemies are poisonous as well (like BogBats) so you can see which Enemies in the group actually did damage to you so you can know how many poison counters to take.

- Jee


You can still do a similar thing by using different colored dice for multiple monsters attacking. For special attacks, swap out the special hits for different colored dice before rolling for defense, then keep dice color-coded for the corresponding armor rolls as well.

Yep, we do this too. Sometimes you get multiple monsters that have to be tracked, each with their own special Hits. And its like ... hopefully someone owns Tenzi.

- Jee
 
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Trent Boardgamer
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Adria wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
KevBelisle wrote:
Grauenwolf wrote:
How to speed up dice rolls (from an old Warhammer player)

1. Roll all of the attacks
2. Throw out any misses
3. Reroll what's left for damage or defense
4. Throw out any misses

It doesn't seem like a big change over red/white dice, but it can dramatically reduce the time it takes to roll.


How do people who DON'T do it this way do it?

This is mostly how it's done. There are cases where this won't work. Not all Enemy Hits - even from the same Enemy - are created equal. Some of them do extra damage/effects on unblocked 6s. Plus, if you have any items that prevent/alter damage from one "source" (like an Amulet of Kotak) you have to keep track of which dice belong to which Enemy so you can track which Defense/Armor rolls go with which Enemy, so you can figure out the total amount of Damage each Enemy actually did to you rather than just totally the amount for one Enemy Group. You have to do this if the Enemies are poisonous as well (like BogBats) so you can see which Enemies in the group actually did damage to you so you can know how many poison counters to take.

- Jee


You can still do a similar thing by using different colored dice for multiple monsters attacking. For special attacks, swap out the special hits for different colored dice before rolling for defense, then keep dice color-coded for the corresponding armor rolls as well.


That's what I do.

I really don't find it that bad. Yes it couldn't have been cleaner, but I can live with it.
 
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Klutz
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Wait a second though...

I haven't played in a while but, IIRC, enemies attack individually, not as a group.

If so, rolling all enemies from a group at the same time gives you information you shouldn't have, and you can make decisions based on said information like:
- Deciding to use grit to dodge some hits if you know you might die otherwise.
- Deciding which order to apply monster attacks, maybe you know you're going to die, so you decide to soak up the attacks from 3 enemies that did 1 damage each, instead of applying the damage from the 1 enemy that did 6 damage and letting the other enemies attack someone else.
- Deciding to spend your ability that reduces damage from a single source once yo know which source will do the most damage.
- Etc...
- Etc...

 
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Jee Fu
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KevBelisle wrote:
Wait a second though...

I haven't played in a while but, IIRC, enemies attack individually, not as a group.

If so, rolling all enemies from a group at the same time gives you information you shouldn't have, and you can make decisions based on said information like:
- Deciding to use grit to dodge some hits if you know you might die otherwise.
- Deciding which order to apply monster attacks, maybe you know you're going to die, so you decide to soak up the attacks from 3 enemies that did 1 damage each, instead of applying the damage from the 1 enemy that did 6 damage and letting the other enemies attack someone else.
- Deciding to spend your ability that reduces damage from a single source once yo know which source will do the most damage.
- Etc...
- Etc...


Technically yes Enemies attack individually, but since the Rule Book says:
RAW wrote:
Generally a Hero wants to roll all of their Defense rolls from the current Enemy Attacks (note the plural) together so that if they need to, they can use a Grit to Re-roll all of the dice that just failed.

it means that a Hero is allowed to have total knowledge about all the Hits from ALL the Enemy Attacks coming at them within a single Enemy Group Activation, before a single Defense Roll has to be thrown. This is functionally indistinguishable from "All Enemies from the same Enemy Group roll their Attacks against a single Hero at the same time" (except in specifically called out scenarios, like a Trederran Legionnaire with a Weapon of War).

The Rule Book also separates the relevant sections chronologically - first each Enemy rolls their Attacks, then once all of them have done that the player rolls Defense against them all.

- Jee
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Klutz
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I guess I didn't remember that quirk in the rules!
 
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