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Subject: Finishing the game rss

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Chris Morse
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Hi, quick question. I played this for the first time the other day. There were 3 of us playing, 2 who had never played before.
Player 2 started the end phase, which meant player 3 had another go....but player 1 said they also got another go, which to me didn't seem right as they got 1 more go than anyone else, and subsequently won the game.
Is this correct?
TIA
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James Clinch
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Yes.

From the last page of the rulebook...
If a player purchases the last personality
card and such empties the display on the
game board, or if he builds his 15th house,
he receives the Concordia card, which is
worth 7 additional VP. Every other player
now executes his last turn before the final
scoring is done as described below.
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Derry Salewski
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Everyone else gets one more turn once someone triggers the game end.

It's not the type of euro where you care about one more action than someone else.

You get seven points for ending the game (which presumably you should be doing when you'll win) so it's more a race to that. Different strategies might make use of cards with varying degrees of efficiency. All that matters is having the most points at the end of the race.
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alan beaumont
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AP Maximus?
FarawayPictures wrote:
Player 2 started the end phase, which meant player 3 had another go....but player 1 said they also got another go, which to me didn't seem right as they got 1 more go than anyone else, and subsequently won the game.
Player 1 starts with slightly less money and will be last to get the boost from the Prefect Maximus. This irons out the first player advantage.

During the endgame it is sometimes tricky working out whether it might be better to get another turn, or the 7 points from the Concordia Card, bearing in mind that alone is a 14 points swing when someone else gets it.

Generally speaking ending the game is usually better, but yesterday evening I was able to ignore this because doing something else scored more heavily (excellent Architect followed by a final Weaver).
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Brett
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scifiantihero wrote:


It's not the type of euro where you care about one more action than someone else.



I disagree. When someone wins the game as a result of getting one more turn then everyone else then you do care about that. I don't think the increasing 1 Sestertii per player in the player order is as beneficial as the extra turn.
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Jeff K
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Grape Ape wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:


It's not the type of euro where you care about one more action than someone else.



I disagree. When someone wins the game as a result of getting one more turn then everyone else then you do care about that. I don't think the increasing 1 Sestertii per player in the player order is as beneficial as the extra turn.


This is heavily ignoring all of the factors that depend on starting player order. Such as: first placement advantage, prefectus magnus etc. It has never been my experience, and I have played many, many times, with many different groups no less, that a player in the position that the OP describes is any more likely to win than any other player at the table.

The truth is there is no "turn order" in the game. There is simply going around the table. There is no first player after the start, by design. I know it seems intuitive that there is such a thing as an "extra turn," but there is not. The closest thing to a "turn" in this game is actually when you play you Tribune.
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Joel Oakley
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Grape Ape wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:


It's not the type of euro where you care about one more action than someone else.



I disagree. When someone wins the game as a result of getting one more turn then everyone else then you do care about that. I don't think the increasing 1 Sestertii per player in the player order is as beneficial as the extra turn.


The money plus the fact that the player to the right of the starting player also gets the Prefectus Magnus tile at the start of the game seems adequate compensation to me.
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Derry Salewski
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Grape Ape wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:


It's not the type of euro where you care about one more action than someone else.



I disagree. When someone wins the game as a result of getting one more turn then everyone else then you do care about that. I don't think the increasing 1 Sestertii per player in the player order is as beneficial as the extra turn.


I mean. Okay. Maybe you play more than me, but probably not if you think the game is that broken.

*shrugs*

Disagree.
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Russ Williams
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Grape Ape wrote:
I disagree. When someone wins the game as a result of getting one more turn then everyone else then you do care about that. I don't think the increasing 1 Sestertii per player in the player order is as beneficial as the extra turn.

Are you merely theorizing, or have you played a lot and observed a statistically significant first player advantage?
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David Janik-Jones
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About 14 plays under my belt and I've not seen first player advantage in terms of winning. Not that there might not be, but my experiences have done nothing but validate the game's balance.
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Chris Morse
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Thank you all for the comments and clarification. I have to say it did seem odd, but, as mentioned, the way it starts probably compensates. I need to play again to get my head round it a bit more. Thanks again.
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Byron Brown
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In addition to the Prefect Maximus and addition starting coins, both of which are significant balancing mechanisms, I would also point out that, in almost every game I have played, the first player plays his architect on the first turn, and then then other players "diplomat" that architect, saving their own architect to play when they are strategically ready to do so. This is not "huge", as the first player can diplomat any other architect when it is played and they may be able to buy a new architect card, but there have been times when I, as first player, have been unable to match my resources to make an optimum second architect move.

The first player does have the advantage of grabbing an optimum spot for his first cities, although the small coin disparity between the first and subsequent players can change which spot is the best place to go. Of course, especially in a 4 or 5 player game, later players may feel like the best spots have been taken. But the significance of these advantages varies greatly with the specific layout of the map and resources in a particular game and add to the challenge of winning the game.

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Kevin
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DaveyJJ wrote:
About 14 plays under my belt and I've not seen first player advantage in terms of winning. Not that there might not be, but my experiences have done nothing but validate the game's balance.


Concordia has quite a bit of meta gaming and while the first player might have a theoretical player advantage at first, it quickly balances out as everyone figures out different strategies. These nuances are very important, albeit small.
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Russ Williams
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Anecdotally I won as the last player in a 4-player game today.
 
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russ wrote:
Anecdotally I won as the last player in a 4-player game today.

Clearly, the last-player position is overpowered because it's the first to get PM and it gets extra money.
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Terence Aries
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PepsiFizz wrote:
I
in almost every game I have played, the first player plays his architect on the first turn, and then then other players "diplomat" that architect,


Mental note: when playing against you and going first, remind me to Tribune as my first action and build an extra colonist, then Diplomat someone elses Architect and move further than anyone else.

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Derry Salewski
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Trence wrote:
PepsiFizz wrote:
I
in almost every game I have played, the first player plays his architect on the first turn, and then then other players "diplomat" that architect,


Mental note: when playing against you and going first, remind me to Tribune as my first action and build an extra colonist, then Diplomat someone elses Architect and move further than anyone else.



Or just senator!
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Terence Aries
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scifiantihero wrote:
Trence wrote:
PepsiFizz wrote:
I
in almost every game I have played, the first player plays his architect on the first turn, and then then other players "diplomat" that architect,


Mental note: when playing against you and going first, remind me to Tribune as my first action and build an extra colonist, then Diplomat someone elses Architect and move further than anyone else.



Or just senator!


Sure, but a Senator can be Diplomated, whereas a Tribune is, if you pardon the rhyme, immune thus rendering any potential Diplomats useless and forcing your opponent(s) to take the initiative leaving you to respond.

ps I'm not claiming this is a viable strategy.
 
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tom tom
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I think it is a viable strategy, I use it often.
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alan beaumont
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Finishing the game for starters
Trence wrote:
PepsiFizz wrote:
I
in almost every game I have played, the first player plays his architect on the first turn, and then then other players "diplomat" that architect,

Mental note: when playing against you and going first, remind me to Tribune as my first action and build an extra colonist, then Diplomat someone elses Architect and move further than anyone else.

Did this once in a 5 player game, but only as the 5th player where all the obvious moves were gone. Came 1st or 2nd by a couple of points, but can't remember which!
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Rob G
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Trence wrote:


Sure, but a Senator can be Diplomated, whereas a Tribune is, if you pardon the rhyme, immune thus rendering any potential Diplomats useless and forcing your opponent(s) to take the initiative leaving you to respond.

ps I'm not claiming this is a viable strategy.


I'll remember this when sitting down for a game with José Mourinho.
 
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