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Subject: Questions rules pnp rss

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Stefan S.
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I have a few questions regarding rules of the pnp:

1. Incite Mob (cat ability): can I use birdcards as all three types. For example 2 fox cards + 1 bird for destroying buildings @fox. Or 3 bird cards and decide which clearings I want to destroy?

2. Can I steal as a vagabond when iam friendly or even Ally? Do I get unfriendly then or what happens when I perform an action at a state from which there is no arrow going anywhere with this type of action?

3.when I attack a friendly or allied player as vagabond and the dice roll is zero/zero do I stay friendly or Ally even if I attacked?

4.as old order: when I cannot put 1 birdcards or 2 other cards in at birdsong do I also fall in turmoil?

5.can I sent cats pack to the "hospital" at keep even when iam fighting at the keep. So the soldiers just stay alive there basically?

6.can I use the coalition victory even when iam last? How does it work?

7.when somebody use military victory and the cat uses coalition victory on him - does that mean the cat wins also when the military victory (holding the keep) is full filled?

So, that's it .. I hope somebody got answer to this. Thx!
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Alfonso Velasco
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More questions: Are improvement effects accumulative?
 
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Stefan S.
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Add: 8. can i as a not-vagabond attack the vagabond if he is friendly/Ally with me? And does that effect our relation?
 
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Cole Wehrle
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m0nkeysphere wrote:
I have a few questions regarding rules of the pnp:

1. Incite Mob (cat ability): can I use birdcards as all three types. For example 2 fox cards + 1 bird for destroying buildings @fox. Or 3 bird cards and decide which clearings I want to destroy?


yes.

Quote:

2. Can I steal as a vagabond when iam friendly or even Ally? Do I get unfriendly then or what happens when I perform an action at a state from which there is no arrow going anywhere with this type of action?


You cannot steal if you are an ally.

Quote:
when I attack a friendly or allied player as vagabond and the dice roll is zero/zero do I stay friendly or Ally even if I attacked?


Yup. No harm no foul.

Quote:
4.as old order: when I cannot put 1 birdcards or 2 other cards in at birdsong do I also fall in turmoil?


1 bird card or one to two non-bird cards. This is never impossible as you draw right before your turn.

Quote:
5.can I sent cats pack to the "hospital" at keep even when iam fighting at the keep. So the soldiers just stay alive there basically?


Yes.

Quote:

6.can I use the coalition victory even when iam last? How does it work?


Sure. The first step is to always remove your score cube so you aren't last when resolving the effect.

Quote:

7.when somebody use military victory and the cat uses coalition victory on him - does that mean the cat wins also when the military victory (holding the keep) is full filled?


The timing of this is important. You can only form a coalition with the player in last place so the military victory card would have to be played AFTER the coalition was formed. The Cat would then have to vacate the Keep and let their coalition partner (with the Military Victory) occupy it. As you might imagine, the other players would likely try to stop this from happening.

Quote:
More questions: Are improvement effects accumulative?


You can only have one of each improvement (this rule may be missing from the PNP rules, I'll add it when I get to the office Monday). Other than that though all effects are accumulative.
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OJB
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PNP rules question "Movement":
Can anyone tell me what the origin clearing is from where I can move to any adjacent clearing if I rule it? Is it my choosen starting clearing at the game setup?
 
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Ethan Furman
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generationX wrote:
PNP rules question "Movement":
what the origin clearing is from where I can move to any adjacent clearing if I rule it?


The origin clearing is the clearing your troops start in before moving. So if you have troops in clearing F, and they want to move to clearing G, then clearing F is the "origin" for that move.
 
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umbral Aeronaut
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generationX wrote:
PNP rules question "Movement":
Can anyone tell me what the origin clearing is from where I can move to any adjacent clearing if I rule it? Is it my choosen starting clearing at the game setup?


"Origin clearing" is merely a game term for whatever clearing you are presently trying to move your Warriors out of.

The system is simple: A players decides to use a Move to get their Warriors out of a clearing (this is then the "origin clearing" for the purposes of that Movement only). Next the player checks to see if they Rule the origin clearing with a majority of pieces. If so, they can move freely to any adjacent clearing with however many warriors they want to take. If they do NOT rule the origin clearing, then the only adjacent clearing(s) they can move to are ones that they DO rule.
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Ethan Furman
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umbralAeronaut wrote:
generationX wrote:
PNP rules question "Movement":
Can anyone tell me what the origin clearing is from where I can move to any adjacent clearing if I rule it? Is it my choosen starting clearing at the game setup?


"Origin clearing" is merely a game term for whatever clearing you are presently trying to move your Warriors out of.

The system is simple: A players decides to use a Move to get their Warriors out of a clearing (this is then the "origin clearing" for the purposes of that Movement only). Next the player checks to see if they Rule the origin clearing with a majority of pieces. If so, they can move freely to any adjacent clearing with however many warriors they want to take. If they do NOT rule the origin clearing, then the only adjacent clearing(s) they can move to are ones that they DO rule.

Or have permission to enter from the destination clearing's ruler.
 
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Jeff S
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Anyone finding that the smaller text at the bottom of the cards can be a bit hard to read? Seems like a slightly bigger/thicker font would clear it up easily enough.
 
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Todd Carter
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I'm having trouble understand what it costs the different factions to craft things. For the Alliance, it's obviously supporters. But I can't seem to find it for the other factions. I'm guessing it's cards for some or in the case of the Marquise, clearings that they own and have an anvil. (Sorry I forget the term. I'm turning in soon.)

So, for the conspiracies, I assume the number on the bottom left hand corner of the card is how many supports it costs, yes?

Lastly, when the woodland gets upgrades, do they take the associated tokens or keep the cards they upgraded with on their board or both?

As you can see, I'm all manner of confused. Thanks ahead of time. I really want to get to know this game. It looks so nifty. But now I see it's not for the faint of heart.
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Cole Wehrle
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plainscape wrote:
I'm having trouble understand what it costs the different factions to craft things. For the Alliance, it's obviously supporters. But I can't seem to find it for the other factions. I'm guessing it's cards for some or in the case of the Marquise, clearings that they own and have an anvil. (Sorry I forget the term. I'm turning in soon.)


It doesn't cost anything other than the card. However each "crafting building" can only be used once per turn. The Alliance uses their strongholds to craft, so if they have two fox strongholds they can craft a single two-fox improvement or 2 one-fox improvements.

Quote:


So, for the conspiracies, I assume the number on the bottom left hand corner of the card is how many supports it costs, yes?


yes.

Quote:

Lastly, when the woodland gets upgrades, do they take the associated tokens or keep the cards they upgraded with on their board or both?


I'm not sure what you mean when you say "upgrades." If you're talking about crafted improvements, they are just played near their faction board.

---

In general, regarding the difficulty of the game, I realize the PnP can look a little scary with its 20 page rulebook. But that's just because we haven't yet gotten to the phase of development where make things fully presentable with rulebook images, nice typesetting, and other helper aids.

This is one reason why I'm happy to answer any and all questions you all might have about the game.
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Rich James
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Cole Wehrle wrote:
[q="m0nkeysphere"]
Quote:

2. Can I steal as a vagabond when iam friendly or even Ally? Do I get unfriendly then or what happens when I perform an action at a state from which there is no arrow going anywhere with this type of action?


You cannot steal if you are an ally.

What about the second question? What happens when you steal a card from a player when you have already gifted one, then 2 cards? You're not allies yet, so it is allowed. What happens to the relationship?

And, in general, how to handle cases where you do an action that ought to change the relationship, but there is no arrow telling you how to modify it? (E.g. currently hostile, then you gift a card)
 
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Cole Wehrle
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arjisme wrote:
Cole Wehrle wrote:
[q="m0nkeysphere"]
Quote:

2. Can I steal as a vagabond when iam friendly or even Ally? Do I get unfriendly then or what happens when I perform an action at a state from which there is no arrow going anywhere with this type of action?


You cannot steal if you are an ally.

What about the second question? What happens when you steal a card from a player when you have already gifted one, then 2 cards? You're not allies yet, so it is allowed. What happens to the relationship?

And, in general, how to handle cases where you do an action that ought to change the relationship, but there is no arrow telling you how to modify it? (E.g. currently hostile, then you gift a card)


Relationships can only be changed in accordance with the arrows.
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Todd Carter
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Cole Wehrle wrote:

In general, regarding the difficulty of the game, I realize the PnP can look a little scary with its 20 page rulebook. But that's just because we haven't yet gotten to the phase of development where make things fully presentable with rulebook images, nice typesetting, and other helper aids.

This is one reason why I'm happy to answer any and all questions you all might have about the game.


Thank you for answering my questions. Things make a lot more sense now! I guess I should have listened to the mp3 of you teaching the game before diving in. I was just running through a couple turns solo to see if I get it and I think I mostly understand it now. The video of your four playing as also a big help.

But, one more question: As the vagabond, if he wanted to craft an improvement that required two different symbols. Can he spend one hammer in one of the locations of that symbol, move and then spend another hammer in a location with the other symbol?

Thanks again!
 
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Cole Wehrle
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plainscape wrote:
But, one more question: As the vagabond, if he wanted to craft an improvement that required two different symbols. Can he spend one hammer in one of the locations of that symbol, move and then spend another hammer in a location with the other symbol?

Thanks again!


The vagabond cannot be in two places at once and so cannot craft any of those improvements.

Let me know if you have any other questions and enjoy the game!
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Rich James
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Cole Wehrle wrote:
arjisme wrote:
Cole Wehrle wrote:
[q="m0nkeysphere"]
Quote:

2. Can I steal as a vagabond when iam friendly or even Ally? Do I get unfriendly then or what happens when I perform an action at a state from which there is no arrow going anywhere with this type of action?


You cannot steal if you are an ally.

What about the second question? What happens when you steal a card from a player when you have already gifted one, then 2 cards? You're not allies yet, so it is allowed. What happens to the relationship?

And, in general, how to handle cases where you do an action that ought to change the relationship, but there is no arrow telling you how to modify it? (E.g. currently hostile, then you gift a card)


Relationships can only be changed in accordance with the arrows.

OK, thanks. I guess then you can steal from a faction that you are on friendly terms with (as long as not Allied) and it will not impact the relationship.
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Stefan S.
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m0nkeysphere wrote:
Add: 8. can i as a not-vagabond attack the vagabond if he is friendly/Ally with me? And does that effect our relation?


Thank you very much for answering all the questions. I appreciate that a lot!
The one above still is unclear for me. Do u have an answer too?
 
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Cole Wehrle
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m0nkeysphere wrote:
m0nkeysphere wrote:
Add: 8. can i as a not-vagabond attack the vagabond if he is friendly/Ally with me? And does that effect our relation?




Yes you can, and no it does not.
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OJB
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The battle dice will be twelve-sided in the final game with numbers between 0-3. Question if 12-sided dice are used when playing the PNP:
How often are the single numbers present at the dice? Three times?

Thanks to Cole Wehrle for taking the time to answering all the questions!!!
 
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Simon Skov
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generationX wrote:
How often are the single numbers present at the dice? Three times?

Yeah, three times each. It's an even distribution, so it functions the same as rolling a four sided die. The change was apparently made because most people think four sided dice aren't that nice to roll, and I can't say I disagree.
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Merick Runner
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I am playing Vagabond and I use Coalition Victory to join up with the Woodland Alliance. Do my victory points count towards the Woodland |Alliance or are they just lost?
 
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Cole Wehrle
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mangamerick wrote:
I am playing Vagabond and I use Coalition Victory to join up with the Woodland Alliance. Do my victory points count towards the Woodland |Alliance or are they just lost?


The first step of the victory condition is to remove your score marker. They are lost.
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A couple more questions after reading the pnp rules today. I hope I'm not missing the answers right in front of my face!

1) When the Eyrie goes into turmoil, their turn ends immediately. Just that mean just Daylight ends, and you go to Evening, or do you skip evening as well? (Skipping Evening would mean no VP scoring but also you don't have to discard down to your hand limit, right?)

2) I'm assuming Woodland Alliance picks up all cards in hideouts at the start of their turn, which would include conspiracies as well as secrets, right? (It's worded a little differently in the rules vs. the player sheet.) So basically, each hideout can store a card for next turn, supplementing your hand limit, which is the whole point of Keep Secrets, correct?

3) Also for the Woodland Alliance, when you collect cards indicated by your Outrage level at the start of your turn, the number of cards you get would be the 1/2/3 indicated on the track, correct? Same for bonus supporters at the end of the turn? (And is it correct that you can place your bonus supporter(s) in any forest nation box(es) you want?

4) For the Vagabond giving gifts, I'm assuming you can give any number of cards you wish (that match the current clearing), even if there aren't enough items to take ("...you *may* take..."), correct?
 
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Cole Wehrle
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tempus42 wrote:

1) When the Eyrie goes into turmoil, their turn ends immediately. Just that mean just Daylight ends, and you go to Evening, or do you skip evening as well? (Skipping Evening would mean no VP scoring but also you don't have to discard down to your hand limit, right?)



There turn is over. No discarding, no scoring.

Quote:

2) I'm assuming Woodland Alliance picks up all cards in hideouts at the start of their turn, which would include conspiracies as well as secrets, right? (It's worded a little differently in the rules vs. the player sheet.) So basically, each hideout can store a card for next turn, supplementing your hand limit, which is the whole point of Keep Secrets, correct?


Yup, this will be clarified on the player boards when I get a chance to update them

Quote:


3) Also for the Woodland Alliance, when you collect cards indicated by your Outrage level at the start of your turn, the number of cards you get would be the 1/2/3 indicated on the track, correct? Same for bonus supporters at the end of the turn? (And is it correct that you can place your bonus supporter(s) in any forest nation box(es) you want?


You get cards as indicated during Birdsong. You don't get supporters (that was a rules artifact).


Quote:
4) For the Vagabond giving gifts, I'm assuming you can give any number of cards you wish (that match the current clearing), even if there aren't enough items to take ("...you *may* take..."), correct?


Yup.
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Steven Becker
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I posted a couple of questions in the KS comments, but this certainly is the better place!

1. How does the "Woodland Trap" Conspiracy work? It's saying "Inflict 2 hits then discard". Now, does that happen immediately and do I have to have any pieces in the clearing I want to inflict the hits in? Or can I spend 2 fox supporters and inflict the 2 hits in a clearing I don't have any units in?

2a. If the Vagabond attacks a clearing with enemy buildings, though no enemy warriors in, do I have to exhaust swords for each building removed or is that basically free (apart from the initial torch)? The PnP rulebook sounds like there is no requirement at all.

2b. I attack with a single warrior a clearing with 2-3 enemy buildings (not with Vagabond), though no enemy warriors in, do I still destroy all buildings? It's kind of the same question like above, just warriors instead of swords...

3. If Vagabond kills 2 warriors of a faction while NOT being in the 2nd negative alignment, it doesn't move the alignment to the 3rd negative alignment, it just counts as 1 warrior kill for 2 VP and then I end up in that 2nd negative alignment with that faction, correct?
And what if I kill 3 warriors? Will that bring me to the 2nd negative alignment with the first kill and then immediately to the 3rd step for the 2 other killed warriors?

4a. "The Eyrie Dynasties" reform action: "Spend a card from your hand. Then move a card of matching suit from one column of the Decree to any other column." Can I spend the bird suit to move a card of any suit? And the other way around, can I spend any suit to move a bird card?

4b. I can't use the reform action to move a card within the same column (to a different order position basically)?

5. How does that hand size +2 item work? Is that just a permanent buff that I can place on my board beside the hand size limit icon kind of? And who can use it? Only the Vagabond or can this one be used by anyone?

6. Woodland Alliance - Birdsong - Draw cards as indicated by your Outrage
I don't draw income + 1/2/3 (depending on my track status), right? I only draw 1 card if I'm at step 3-4, 2 cards if at step 5-7 and 3 cards if at step 8. And the Outrage has no impact on the normal Draw Phase (Evening of Cat Phase)? The "plus" is only relevant for the Alliance's evening phase to signalize the 1 "plus" 1/2/3 supporters!?

7. Eyrie - Birdsong
It seems like you answered my question kind of already in here, but you don't have to play 2 non-bird cards, right? I have to play at least one card, but don't have to play 2, even though it's not a bird card?
The player board is saying "one bird card or two non-bird cards" and the rulebook says "up to two non-bird cards" which actually sounds to me like I could also play no card... I know it's WiP, but still wanted to let you know!

8a. Will the Eyrie fall into Turmoil if they only have 1 warrior to recruit with the leader "Charismatic - Recruit twice for each action" with their last or only card in the Recruit column? And either way, I assume that last warrior would still be recruited, right?

8b. And to be sure, that leader "Charismatic"'s abilitiy only triggers for the Recruit action column and means I have to recruit 2 warriors each time, though can place 1 warrior in one cleaning and the other one in another cleaning (assuming it's a bird card in there I use for this)?

9. The Marquise's action "Move twice" means I can do up to 2 separated move actions, with different warriors into different cleanings? It's not like I have to move the same group of warriors from a single cleaning twice as a group!?

10. If I spend one supporter for "Refugee - Move any number of supporters from one nation to another.", do the supporters I move have to be from the nation of the spend supporter or can these be any?

11. I'm not sure how that special "build" action of the "Crafting Beaver" works. Is that a <torch> action available and in the clearing I'm in, I can place any legal building of for example Marquise (assuming Marquise rules that clearing) without them getting the VP for that building I've choosen?

I'm sure there is more, but time will tell...

Either way, thanks a lot for your time! Much appreciated!
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