Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So I am working on a game which is going to implement some sort of worker placement but I need to be able to track information about each worker throughout the course of the game.

I need a few ideas on the most efficient way to do this.
I need a way to do this without too many moving pieces.

So lets start of with some requirements.

I need to be able to track workers for up to 5 different players.
Eaach player will have potentially up to 15 workers.
Workers will have a single skills, chosen from a short list of minimum 3 maximum 5 skills (undecided)
Workers will also have to be able to track their level/longevity in that skill department.
and finally optional, but highly desired: individual workers may possibly have a name and a unique ability within their skill.

I started out thinking in the same vane as Village, because the worker having a lifespan, would be very similar to my concept of "skill experience/longevity" but that led me to having far-far too many worker pieces.

my next thought was to do dice as workers. I thought about wanting to do each color would be a worker with a skill (Blue = fisher, green = forester, brown = woodcutter, Grey=mason, etc) and the value be its longevity in rounds, (blue 1 could only catch lowest value fish, blue 6 could catch the best fish, etc) but then I could not figure out how to determine which player a worker belonged to.

So I turned it around and made players the color, and thought workers might be the dice type (D4, D6, etc) and still have the value be the experience. Might work if I only have 3 worker types, difficult if I have 5. Less optimal, since then workers of different skills will have different max levels.

So, dice alone might not work well.
Then I was thinking about using some sort of Card + Dice/Cylinder + Meeple token. The card could easily identify the identity of the Meeple, have its unique ability, and either a dice/(track+cube) on the card could indicate its experience. but then how could I know which meeple belonged to each individual meeple identity, while they have been placed on the central board?

Most players including myself despise stickers on a wooden meeple, so that solution is out, and with 75 workers I nthe game, 75 unique meeples isn't likely very easy or cost friendly to do.

so I am looking for anyone who has attempted to do anything like this before, to give me any other ideas they might have had.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
the result of caprice
Mozambique
msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
One Solution could be to use stacking counters:
http://www.eaieducation.com/Product/530841/Stacking_Counters...


The top counter in the stack would represent the individual worker with a unique sticker or color.

The next few counters in the stack would be the skills, however many are needed. Each skill is represented by a different color.

The bottom counters will be added as the worker levels/ages.

e:
What I describe could work for prototype. A final version could have customizable stacking components like in cosmic encounter:



3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Vallerand
Canada
St-Basile-Le-Grand
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What about cards representing the workers, and sleeve colored to represent their owner?

Square cards, which you can rotate 90` to "level up"?

What about putting them, like in Keyflower, at an angle that identifies the owner? (To the North of the action means it's mine).

And while this is not what you want to hear, a component issue might be a good reason to streamline a part of your game, or add a decision point.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Holz
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
mbmb
Use a board/card for each worker to track their specific skills, and a standee to show their placement on the main board. You can print the name on the card & standee, and match the art, and use art that's evocative of the worker's base skills.

You could give each player differently-coloured stands, to speed up questions like "which worker is that?/which player is in charge of them?"
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Warrender
United States
Averill Park
New York
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A possible solution would seem to be some sort of miniatures solution, like a combination of Samurai Swords and BattleLore.

In the former, you have three pieces representing each of your armies, and each has a mat showing the composition of those armies. That would be easy to implement.

If you need the piece itself to show what it's good at (and you very well might, as having to reference a mat to see which skills everyone has could grind the game to a halt), then you might insert flags indicating those skills into receptacles as the flags in BattleLore do.


---

For whatever it's worth, though, my concern is that each player, having several workers, each of which has several skills, each skill of which is at a particular level...just seems like, even if you can find a clean way to represent it, is going to give players a lot to think about, and it's the 'what am I allowed to do?' variety rather than the more interesting 'what do I want to do?'.

If testing shows this to be the case, one option might be generic pieces in the colors representing the different skills. You acquire cards or tiles or whatever showing your level of competence in that skill, and can only use workers in that color if you have at least one card for it.

Of course this is different than player piece ownership but it's probably much simpler to have a sense for what you're able to do.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
maf man
United States
Waunakee (madison area)
WI
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
perhaps your looking at it the wrong way. What if rather than placing your workers out your brought the placement to them?
So a player would have their workers in front of them in any number of ways to make it easier to keep track of what worker has what stat and you pick out a tile or whatever from the center board and bring it to you worker you want to use.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nikolas Crisci
msg tools
I would use chips to represent the workers, the color would indicate the player and the chip would have an icon (for the ability) + a number for the level. At this point you can exchange the level by replacing the chip.

A more expensive but cooler variant would be to use colored workers to dertermine which player is controlling it and have a socket where you can click the worker into that represents the skill and level, this way you can exchange the socket when leveling up. As I said I think this is more expensive.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mafman6 wrote:
perhaps your looking at it the wrong way. What if rather than placing your workers out your brought the placement to them?
So a player would have their workers in front of them in any number of ways to make it easier to keep track of what worker has what stat and you pick out a tile or whatever from the center board and bring it to you worker you want to use.


while a good idea, unfortunately the design of the game would render this unworkable.

Most of the buildings allow multiple players to place a worker there for the turn, with each successive player receiving reduced benefit.

Some of the worker placement spots require multiple simultaneous workers from the same player to be used, others require that a worker spend 2-3 turns there to complete their task.

The key mechanic to this game is being able to stage and pipeline parallel short term tasks to complete a long term task.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
maf man
United States
Waunakee (madison area)
WI
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sao123 wrote:
Some of the worker placement spots require multiple simultaneous workers from the same player to be used, others require that a worker spend 2-3 turns there to complete their task.

you mind giving me a specific example? I think I can make my idea work.
Not entirely sure if it will work well but I just want to stretch this idea to see if it can work at all.

As far as the reduced benefit portion you just have tiles of that action and each one shows a lesser effect. Or a slider of benefits depending on if players return the tiles at a designated time or not.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ok so dont judge the theme based on this little tidbit of information, its not complete nor understandable without the complete backstory. But this example should show you what i am going for.


The job is to build as many boats as you can and send them out into an unknown ocean and visit/discover distant places. Initially you will be building small basic wooden boats captained by 1 man. Eventually you will be building larger steel ships crewed by several.

Each person has a volume of work that can be accomplished in 1 game turn which could be said to be equal to a month. A workers skill level determine the amount of work he can do in a month, AND the complexity of work he can do.

As I said this is a staging and pipelining game. There will be tasks (worker placement spots) of length 1-5 turns, Workers do not all return home at the end of each turn, they only return when their task is complete.

Each player will start with 1 shipyard. But by the end, will have the ability to have 3 ships under construction in 3 different shipyards simultaneously.

So initially it might take the woodworker 1 turn to gather wood, 1 turn to carve his boat, 1 turn to launch it, and 2 turns to sail it across the ocean, then he can return to begin again.

But to produce a much larger steel ship it is going to take many people doing many things to build this.

The mine could have up to 4 spaces.
So lets say you have 2 miner/smither each with a skill level of 4. they go to the mine and will get 7 ore cubes. (first is level, second is level minus 1, third is level minus 2, etc)

The next month one of those same 2 workers could go back to the mine for additional ore, and the other could then go to the mill and forge 4 of those 7 cubes into some usable metal. on the third turn, he stayed there to forge 4 more ore, and his partner also went to the mill to forge the remaining 3. Thus 2 workers mined and forged 11 steel in 3 turns.

Then comes time to build the large vessel, which will take 3 workers, 3 turns each. so that spot will have a time track. Each turn, the worker will advance within that spot to show progress, until the time when the task is complete and next turn he can be available for his next job.

[w1t1]->[t2]->[t3]
[w2t1]->[t2]->[t3]-> Ship completed all 3 workers return.
[w3t1]->[t2]->[t3]

once the vessel is completed, it must be embarked into the water. That is a very quick, but heavy job. 1 player must place 5 workers into this spot to complete this task but it will only take 1 turn. [w1] [w2] [w3] [w4] [w5]

Finally this boat can be crewed by minimum 1, up to 3 of your workers. (More crew, more points) and this boat will sail for several turns, making those workers unavailable until they return from their voyage.
again with a time track for each worker sailing
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4] -> end voyage
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]

Workers successfully completing a voyage will then level up their skill level.


i guess to sum: Its worker placement, but each spot will require varying number of simultaneous workers and each spot will take varying length of time to complete.

The winning person will be able to progress by having the least amount of time workers are idle waiting on another worker to complete his task. You will also have to balance how many of your workers are sailing the ship they built(getting points) vs increasing your capacity(engine building) vs producing(using engine), and balancing where to use your highest skilled workers vs where to use your lowest skilled workers.
 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
patrick mullen
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sao123 wrote:
ok so dont judge the theme based on this little tidbit of information, its not complete nor understandable without the complete backstory. But this example should show you what i am going for.


The job is to build as many boats as you can and send them out into an unknown ocean and visit/discover distant places. Initially you will be building small basic wooden boats captained by 1 man. Eventually you will be building larger steel ships crewed by several.

Each person has a volume of work that can be accomplished in 1 game turn which could be said to be equal to a month. A workers skill level determine the amount of work he can do in a month, AND the complexity of work he can do.

As I said this is a staging and pipelining game. There will be tasks (worker placement spots) of length 1-5 turns, Workers do not all return home at the end of each turn, they only return when their task is complete.

Each player will start with 1 shipyard. But by the end, will have the ability to have 3 ships under construction in 3 different shipyards simultaneously.

So initially it might take the woodworker 1 turn to gather wood, 1 turn to carve his boat, 1 turn to launch it, and 2 turns to sail it across the ocean, then he can return to begin again.

But to produce a much larger steel ship it is going to take many people doing many things to build this.

The mine could have up to 4 spaces.
So lets say you have 2 miner/smither each with a skill level of 4. they go to the mine and will get 7 ore cubes. (first is level, second is level minus 1, third is level minus 2, etc)

The next month one of those same 2 workers could go back to the mine for additional ore, and the other could then go to the mill and forge 4 of those 7 cubes into some usable metal. on the third turn, he stayed there to forge 4 more ore, and his partner also went to the mill to forge the remaining 3. Thus 2 workers mined and forged 11 steel in 3 turns.

Then comes time to build the large vessel, which will take 3 workers, 3 turns each. so that spot will have a time track. Each turn, the worker will advance within that spot to show progress, until the time when the task is complete and next turn he can be available for his next job.

[w1t1]->[t2]->[t3]
[w2t1]->[t2]->[t3]-> Ship completed all 3 workers return.
[w3t1]->[t2]->[t3]

once the vessel is completed, it must be embarked into the water. That is a very quick, but heavy job. 1 player must place 5 workers into this spot to complete this task but it will only take 1 turn. [w1] [w2] [w3] [w4] [w5]

Finally this boat can be crewed by minimum 1, up to 3 of your workers. (More crew, more points) and this boat will sail for several turns, making those workers unavailable until they return from their voyage.
again with a time track for each worker sailing
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4] -> end voyage
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]

Workers successfully completing a voyage will then level up their skill level.


i guess to sum: Its worker placement, but each spot will require varying number of simultaneous workers and each spot will take varying length of time to complete.

The winning person will be able to progress by having the least amount of time workers are idle waiting on another worker to complete his task. You will also have to balance how many of your workers are sailing the ship they built(getting points) vs increasing your capacity(engine building) vs producing(using engine), and balancing where to use your highest skilled workers vs where to use your lowest skilled workers.


Different theme but making a game with similar mechanics and running into similar issues.

The main difference is most spots are ok with just one worker (multiple workers can help complete the task faster), and win conditions are different. My game is about project management, so the engine building in part is in creating new action spaces when you complete a project. I really like having workers level up, but I'm considering simplifying the workers if I have enough other stuff going on, because everything I've tried seems a bit fiddly.

The number of workers each player has in my game is much smaller than yours, right now each player has only 3 workers and never get more - you just level up the ones you have. So one solution I considered is that you line them up in a row and use a 1, 2, and 3 marker as your workers. It's functional, and retains the mechanics I envisioned, but is lacking a certain something for me.

I also considered the option to pull the location to the worker but it didn't work for my game - for I think additional reasons than it didn't work for yours (the action spaces are owned by the players).

If your action spaces are more fixed than mine, pulling the action spaces might still be made to work. If the number of action spaces is small enough, you could have a number of tokens that match each space. You start the game with all of the tokens on the space, and to work there you take the tokens off and put the token on your workers. You could use an "uncovering" mechanism, where removing the token from the space shows you whether or not you have taken enough tokens for the space to be used. Maybe a space has 4, and after taking 2, it shows the icon that it can be used, but if you take some more there is a bonus, or the player taking that token gets a bonus.

As long as players don't have to think of a strong association between the workers who are sharing a space, I think it might be doable. I'm not sure if I saw whether the multiple slots in your design can be occupied by multiple players or not. If only one player can still go to each spot, you could have the player place a separate color token there, or flip one of the spaces tokens to the "occupied" side.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jwarrend wrote:
A possible solution would seem to be some sort of miniatures solution, like a combination of Samurai Swords and BattleLore.

In the former, you have three pieces representing each of your armies, and each has a mat showing the composition of those armies. That would be easy to implement.

If you need the piece itself to show what it's good at (and you very well might, as having to reference a mat to see which skills everyone has could grind the game to a halt), then you might insert flags indicating those skills into receptacles as the flags in BattleLore do.


---

For whatever it's worth, though, my concern is that each player, having several workers, each of which has several skills, each skill of which is at a particular level...just seems like, even if you can find a clean way to represent it, is going to give players a lot to think about, and it's the 'what am I allowed to do?' variety rather than the more interesting 'what do I want to do?'.

If testing shows this to be the case, one option might be generic pieces in the colors representing the different skills. You acquire cards or tiles or whatever showing your level of competence in that skill, and can only use workers in that color if you have at least one card for it.

Of course this is different than player piece ownership but it's probably much simpler to have a sense for what you're able to do.


Each worker has exactly 1 skill and 1 skill level. They may or may not have a unique ability, unrelated to that skill level.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
saluk wrote:
sao123 wrote:
ok so dont judge the theme based on this little tidbit of information, its not complete nor understandable without the complete backstory. But this example should show you what i am going for.


The job is to build as many boats as you can and send them out into an unknown ocean and visit/discover distant places. Initially you will be building small basic wooden boats captained by 1 man. Eventually you will be building larger steel ships crewed by several.

Each person has a volume of work that can be accomplished in 1 game turn which could be said to be equal to a month. A workers skill level determine the amount of work he can do in a month, AND the complexity of work he can do.

As I said this is a staging and pipelining game. There will be tasks (worker placement spots) of length 1-5 turns, Workers do not all return home at the end of each turn, they only return when their task is complete.

Each player will start with 1 shipyard. But by the end, will have the ability to have 3 ships under construction in 3 different shipyards simultaneously.

So initially it might take the woodworker 1 turn to gather wood, 1 turn to carve his boat, 1 turn to launch it, and 2 turns to sail it across the ocean, then he can return to begin again.

But to produce a much larger steel ship it is going to take many people doing many things to build this.

The mine could have up to 4 spaces.
So lets say you have 2 miner/smither each with a skill level of 4. they go to the mine and will get 7 ore cubes. (first is level, second is level minus 1, third is level minus 2, etc)

The next month one of those same 2 workers could go back to the mine for additional ore, and the other could then go to the mill and forge 4 of those 7 cubes into some usable metal. on the third turn, he stayed there to forge 4 more ore, and his partner also went to the mill to forge the remaining 3. Thus 2 workers mined and forged 11 steel in 3 turns.

Then comes time to build the large vessel, which will take 3 workers, 3 turns each. so that spot will have a time track. Each turn, the worker will advance within that spot to show progress, until the time when the task is complete and next turn he can be available for his next job.

[w1t1]->[t2]->[t3]
[w2t1]->[t2]->[t3]-> Ship completed all 3 workers return.
[w3t1]->[t2]->[t3]

once the vessel is completed, it must be embarked into the water. That is a very quick, but heavy job. 1 player must place 5 workers into this spot to complete this task but it will only take 1 turn. [w1] [w2] [w3] [w4] [w5]

Finally this boat can be crewed by minimum 1, up to 3 of your workers. (More crew, more points) and this boat will sail for several turns, making those workers unavailable until they return from their voyage.
again with a time track for each worker sailing
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4] -> end voyage
[t1]->[t2]->[t3]->[t4]

Workers successfully completing a voyage will then level up their skill level.


i guess to sum: Its worker placement, but each spot will require varying number of simultaneous workers and each spot will take varying length of time to complete.

The winning person will be able to progress by having the least amount of time workers are idle waiting on another worker to complete his task. You will also have to balance how many of your workers are sailing the ship they built(getting points) vs increasing your capacity(engine building) vs producing(using engine), and balancing where to use your highest skilled workers vs where to use your lowest skilled workers.


Different theme but making a game with similar mechanics and running into similar issues.

The main difference is most spots are ok with just one worker (multiple workers can help complete the task faster), and win conditions are different. My game is about project management, so the engine building in part is in creating new action spaces when you complete a project. I really like having workers level up, but I'm considering simplifying the workers if I have enough other stuff going on, because everything I've tried seems a bit fiddly.

The number of workers each player has in my game is much smaller than yours, right now each player has only 3 workers and never get more - you just level up the ones you have. So one solution I considered is that you line them up in a row and use a 1, 2, and 3 marker as your workers. It's functional, and retains the mechanics I envisioned, but is lacking a certain something for me.

I also considered the option to pull the location to the worker but it didn't work for my game - for I think additional reasons than it didn't work for yours (the action spaces are owned by the players).

If your action spaces are more fixed than mine, pulling the action spaces might still be made to work. If the number of action spaces is small enough, you could have a number of tokens that match each space. You start the game with all of the tokens on the space, and to work there you take the tokens off and put the token on your workers. You could use an "uncovering" mechanism, where removing the token from the space shows you whether or not you have taken enough tokens for the space to be used. Maybe a space has 4, and after taking 2, it shows the icon that it can be used, but if you take some more there is a bonus, or the player taking that token gets a bonus.

As long as players don't have to think of a strong association between the workers who are sharing a space, I think it might be doable. I'm not sure if I saw whether the multiple slots in your design can be occupied by multiple players or not. If only one player can still go to each spot, you could have the player place a separate color token there, or flip one of the spaces tokens to the "occupied" side.


Most of the worker placement spots are located on a centralized board which are shared among all the players in a non blocking way. A few of the worker placement spots are also located on each players individual board where the docking yard is located. This works much in the same way as ex libris does, with this board functioning as the players home board. If I understand you correctly this is one of the reasons you also chose to not bring the location to the worker.

The sharing of the worker placement results in a decrease the efficiency of the workers actions on that spot. So for example in the mine I used above let's assume that players A and B each have two workers with a skill level of 4. If player A places both of his workers in the mine then he will get four ore for the first worker and three ore for the second worker. If player B then places his two workers in the mine while it is occupied by player A he will receive three ore for the first worker and two ore for the second worker.

The time when the association between the workers will matter is when the workers different skills go on a voyage together so that they retain their respective skill level Upon returning home. Meaning that if a level 4 Miner, a level 3 Fisher, and a level 2 Forester all go on a voyage together, one of them may choose to stay behind for victory points based on the skill level the other two Upon returning home need to make sure that their skill values are not accidentally interchanged. There is no interactive relationship between multiple workers occupying the same spot even from the same player.


The total number of worker placements spots does not change throughout the course of the game.

The challenge is however there are approximately 10 buildings on the centralized board for workers to work at and each building might have multiple worker replacement spots. For example the mill I addressed earlier is one building on the central board, but within the steel mill there is a worker placement spot to produce metal, which only takes one unit of time. There is also a worker placement spot to upgrade the mill which has a Time Track of 4. The upgraded mill, can then produce higher levels metals. Bronze -> iron -> steel -> mithril etc.
So not only do the workers have a skill level the worker placement spots or buildings also have a skill level minimum requirement.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Implement the workers as Lego blocks: higher skill = higher stack of blocks. Then let players lay down the stacks on a grid representing the total amount of work required for a given task. If the area hasn't been filled it will not yet produce. Areas can change over the course of the game. If players cause 'overhangs' (which for once are allowed), they simply are working inefficiently. Per clock tick players may only place a fixed number of people, or alter a fixed amount of area.

Or is this making too many concessions to your idea of timed pipelining?

(The problem I see with the design as a whole is that it really is a stock-standard tradeoff between training people to become master craftsmen and just hammering everything with simple yokels. Remember that there ought to be various approaches to playing the game!)

The game Leonardo da Vinci uses a mechanism which resembles rather well what you're after. I think. You may want to take a closer look at it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
patrick mullen
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah you have too many spots and too many placements at those spots for my "location chits" idea to be practical. (Although now I want to make a game where that's how it works!)

It might change the game somewhat, but what about having a small number of "types" of workers, and you upgrade that type all at once? This way you can use a manageable number of meeple shapes (small, medium, large, or different "hat" shapes, or something) and just refer to the 3 (or whatever) worker boards for their stats. Then a player would get, perhaps 5 meeples of each type, in their color.

Modifying your skill system, perhaps each class can have 2 or 3 skills, giving the player some flexibility in building their 3 (or whatever) personalized worker specializations. Maybe you give everyone "sailing" - it may stop you from any class excelling in a skill, but give you the flexibility your strategy needs. Or you make sure each class has very different skills, to maximize efficiency.

Brainstorming further, instead of designing the classes, you could have preset classes that each have the collection of skills preprinted, where players still decide which skills to invest in. Choosing the classes at the beginning of the game could provide some player variability, maybe each class has a primary skill already at 2 or 3, a secondary skill that starts at 1, and then a weak skill that starts at 0 (you have to train it before you can use it).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Nash
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I THINK I have an idea for how this might work, but what I can't understand is what the skill actually means.

I understand that the level is a marker of how well a worker can perform an action etc, but the language of 'Miner' and 'Forester' suggests that only a miner can use the mine to obtain ore.

In your example, you seem to allow workers to move between various spaces...?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Koen Hendrix
United Kingdom
Liverpool
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mb
If each players had 15 cards with unique artwork (i.e. picture of the worker) on it, you could represent the worker with a cardboard token showing the same art. The token could also have a coloured edge corresponding to the player colour.

A few stats can be tracked on each card with small wooden cubes or token (sliding them up a track, or adding a cube per skill point gained).

HOWEVER...

My mind boggles at the thought of dozen of worker chips on a board and having to cross-reference each one with a card to learn its stats/abilities.

It sounds like it would be time-consuming, fiddly, opaque, error-prone, AP-prone, high maintenance, whatever you want to call it... The admin/fun ratio seems too high. Not to mention expensive (that's over 200 cubes/tokens, plus 75 (or 15) art, plus 75 cards, plus 75 tokens, just to track your workers).

I applaud you for trying to do something new, but I'm skeptical of whether the added complexity of tracking individual worker stats adds more satisfaction than it adds fiddliness.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nashman88 wrote:
I THINK I have an idea for how this might work, but what I can't understand is what the skill actually means.

I understand that the level is a marker of how well a worker can perform an action etc, but the language of 'Miner' and 'Forester' suggests that only a miner can use the mine to obtain ore.

In your example, you seem to allow workers to move between various spaces...?


ok so again the theme is not yet set in stone and is more provided to give explanation to the mechanics. The actual final skills will probably be more broad like: Metal Worker. And Each skill class will have several worker placement spots they can go to using their skill.

The MetalWorker can make use of the ore mine, the blacksmith shop, the metal mill, and the shipyard dock for metal ships.

The Woodworker can make use of the Forest, the carpentry shop, the sawmill, and the shipyard dock for wooden ships.

if the Metalworker has to go to the forest to gather wood, his maximum production would simply be 1, as he is not skilled in that area.
Likewise if the Woodworker has to go to the mine to gather ore, his maximum production would also be 1.

There will be other shops/spots for each skill as well.

Both will be able to go to the local university/trade school to recruit workers of either skill.

Both will be able to sail on any ship (Wooden ships hold 1-2 workers depending on the specific type of ship built. Metal ships hold 2-3 workers depending on the specific type of ship built.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
khendrix wrote:
If each players had 15 cards with unique artwork (i.e. picture of the worker) on it, you could represent the worker with a cardboard token showing the same art. The token could also have a coloured edge corresponding to the player colour.

A few stats can be tracked on each card with small wooden cubes or token (sliding them up a track, or adding a cube per skill point gained).

HOWEVER...

My mind boggles at the thought of dozen of worker chips on a board and having to cross-reference each one with a card to learn its stats/abilities.

It sounds like it would be time-consuming, fiddly, opaque, error-prone, AP-prone, high maintenance, whatever you want to call it... The admin/fun ratio seems too high. Not to mention expensive (that's over 200 cubes/tokens, plus 75 (or 15) art, plus 75 cards, plus 75 tokens, just to track your workers).

I applaud you for trying to do something new, but I'm skeptical of whether the added complexity of tracking individual worker stats adds more satisfaction than it adds fiddliness.


i have thought of this and am trying to keep the fiddleyness to a minimum. Right now I am thinking the optimum solution would be to abandon the unique abilities and just go with straight classes.

This could be done with a d6 worker on a player colored poker-chip / wooden cylinder. i would need approximately 60 of each, plus cubes to serve as resources, small = 1, large = 3, similar to how Marco Polo does it.


the basic round is simply this:
All player remove any workers from the board who have completed their task, and in turn order may place workers back to 1 spot, until everyone has placed all their workers. But, since many/most of the spots will require a multiple round stay at that spot, each player should only be reclaiming 3-4 workers per round, while the others will continue to work.

This is what i meant by staging and pipelining.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Glenn Massey
United States
Birmingham
Alabama
flag msg tools
Gotta Stay Positive!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Seems like your dice idea would work if combined with a player color-coded disk (or better yet a square marker that the die would fit on/into).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Gervais
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
One option might be a Rattlebones-style die, with different faces to depict the levels and the color of the die to indicate the player. Then, one face would be the type of worker.

Not sure if this is economically viable, but it seems like it checks the boxes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
maf man
United States
Waunakee (madison area)
WI
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ok so for reference I was trying to use Constantinopolis to kind of test my thoughts on this. It does not have worker placement. what it does have is pultaple tile placements out on the board that you add to your board and use and a time track for your shipments.

also check out Argent: The Consortium as the colors of the pawns are the type they are and you add your player color.

I think there is some good potential to the ideas mentioned in other posts where youd have the pawn on some type of dial.

So since the player pieces seem to be a hassle what info can we take off (kind of a rhetorical question showing how I was trying to think)
time seems the most obvious to pull off of the pawn. So each spot could have something like having their spots form a timeline so each turn you scoot your guy down a spot. Or perhaps you place out a guy and take the reward right away and you have it click down on your own personal incoming time track.

any idea on how many skills and skill levels?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mafman6 wrote:
ok so for reference I was trying to use Constantinopolis to kind of test my thoughts on this. It does not have worker placement. what it does have is pultaple tile placements out on the board that you add to your board and use and a time track for your shipments.

also check out Argent: The Consortium as the colors of the pawns are the type they are and you add your player color.

I think there is some good potential to the ideas mentioned in other posts where youd have the pawn on some type of dial.

So since the player pieces seem to be a hassle what info can we take off (kind of a rhetorical question showing how I was trying to think)
time seems the most obvious to pull off of the pawn. So each spot could have something like having their spots form a timeline so each turn you scoot your guy down a spot. Or perhaps you place out a guy and take the reward right away and you have it click down on your own personal incoming time track.

any idea on how many skills and skill levels?



at my current level of thinking 3 skills, and 6 levels (hence the D6)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
maf man
United States
Waunakee (madison area)
WI
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ok so
pawn like in argent
6 sided chip counter stuck on it
-the chip as a whole has a color
-each side of the chip would have a number upright that you could read

so the color of the pawn represents player, color of the chip represents skill, and number is level. This is fairly close to the other ideas mentioned but its just how I see it atm.
This still leaves me wanting to have time tracks as spots on the board. I do see a chance that having a time track as spots would make it hard to ID how many workers can be there. So you could possibly move the time portion to a personal board. Have each player have a track in front of them and they take whatever the worker is getting them right away but place it in a track so they cant use it till turn whatever.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.