Chris District
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Illinois
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I swear I saw something about this in the rules, but my friend and I have been through 4 different sections that seem like they might be relevant, and we haven't found a clear answer.

Situation:

US first cav attacked my single VC unit with 3 battalions and an HQ. During alert movement, I was able to move away, so that only the HQ was adjacent to me. In other words, I had a 2-0-7 VC unit which was supposedly about to fight *just* a single 0-9-8 HQ. The rest of the actual battalion infantry units were left behind.

Does combat still occur?

We found a bunch of sections (re combat, alert movement, artillery fire) which said "if any units are adjacent," or similar, or said something about artillery units being able to "support" etc. So we proceeded with the combat. But I am still not convinced we did it right, because the result was super wonky. First of all, the combat ration was zero, so he had a -5 on his roll (plus another -3 for mountain terrain). Then, there literally was not an appropriate column for determining his casualties, since I had zero artillery and he had zero ground strength.

Did we do this right or wrong?

Thanks folks...
 
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Fred Buchholz
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Middleton
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District wrote:

I swear I saw something about this in the rules, but my friend and I have been through 4 different sections that seem like they might be relevant, and we haven't found a clear answer.

Situation:

US first cav attacked my single VC unit with 3 battalions and an HQ. During alert movement, I was able to move away, so that only the HQ was adjacent to me. In other words, I had a 2-0-7 VC unit which was supposedly about to fight *just* a single 0-9-8 HQ. The rest of the actual battalion infantry units were left behind.

Does combat still occur?

We found a bunch of sections (re combat, alert movement, artillery fire) which said "if any units are adjacent," or similar, or said something about artillery units being able to "support" etc. So we proceeded with the combat. But I am still not convinced we did it right, because the result was super wonky. First of all, the combat ration was zero, so he had a -5 on his roll (plus another -3 for mountain terrain). Then, there literally was not an appropriate column for determining his casualties, since I had zero artillery and he had zero ground strength.

Did we do this right or wrong?

Thanks folks...

Nope to have ground combat there has to be positive Ground strength for the attacker or the attacking units are destroyed. Unless attacking units are "in" the target hex their "attacking" is optional.
See section 5.4 on page 10 sub section titled "COMBAT RATIO" it is very specific on what happens to attacking unit(s) that have 0 ground strength. In the case you describe the HQ would simply not attack and the operation would end.
 
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Richard Kirk
United States
Rockford
Illinois
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You might want to back your game up if you and your opponent haven't gotten too far away from that operation. Here's the specific rule on the situation you described, as opposed to any general rules that are involved in combat:

To elaborate on what Mr. Buchholz had to say above: "If all the units attacking a given target hex in any manner other than bombardment (7.5) have ground Combat Strengths of 0, the attacking units are all automatically destroyed (no die is rolled; the units are simply removed from the map)."

(That's in the last paragraph in the right-hand column on page 10, "The Combat Ratio" under Rule 5.4, Combat.)

Which means you got it wrong. The 1st Cav Headquarters ought to have been destroyed on declaring its attack. I'm guessing your opponent isn't nuts, so had you found this provision before executing the combat, he would have ended the operation once you alerted out.

I've always thought the only time this rule would come into play is if the VC tried to sneak a hidden HQ through an enemy occupied hex. Maybe the US player will call for an incidental attack. Maybe not. It would have to be a situation where the NLF player assumes that the artillery is going to be destroyed anyway. That way it's a bonus if the US player does not demand an incidental; the artillery escapes to fight another day.

Don't sweat it, there's a lot to keep track of in this game. I'm in Fall of 1968 against an opponent who is way more experienced with it, and we still have to check the rules. (I do, anyway.)
 
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Chris District
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Ok. Thanks. I had definitely read that at some point previously, and knew it had to be the case, but then convinced myself otherwise after we spent 10 minutes looking at (literally every other part of) the rules and finding things that suggested it was not.

This is very much a situation of new players still not knowing how to navigate this damn rulebook. I feel like none of the important little rules like that are where they really should be--instead they're all tucked away in sections that are far less intuitive. Nice to have an experienced community to check with.
 
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chris99 chris99
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I probably give myself a lot less flexibility in operations, but I never leave arty or HQ units alone - I always stack them with a ground unit. That way I don't have to worry about 0-strength units.
 
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Patrick
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It's not really a problem , unless your are close to a border or to the ANV who have enough arty to kill the qg (unless play with Vassal with the 6 arty VC Hq power cry )
 
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Fred Buchholz
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An ifern wrote:


It's not really a problem , unless your are close to a border or to the ANV who have enough arty to kill the qg (unless play with Vassal with the 6 arty VC Hq power cry )

That image was given a "fix" here in the forums, Files maybe. I know my Vassal has the 4 strength ones now.
 
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Petri P
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I posted it here in the General forum
 
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Patrick
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We play the first campaign with the 6 arty strength , so the we do this one
with the same unit.
 
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