Ben Rod
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I'm trying to channel my inner Clipper here and really stick to card and rules syntax but I am nevertheless having difficulty interpreting the limitations of its ability:

Scalpel
Bladed Weapon
Base Damage: 1
Ability: You may deal 1 additional damage while attacking with this card.

My argument/understanding: Using this card while attacking allows you to deal 1 damage to the target whether or not you pass the skill test.

Justification: To my knowledge, there is no "inherent" rules relationship between failing a skill test (such as during an attack) and dealing damage or not; any such relationship is specific to each test and spelled out in the app. As such, if this item says that you have the option of dealing 1 additional damage when you use it during an attack, then you can exercise that option regardless of the result of the test (pass/fail).

Thank you in advance for your constructive thoughts on this small matter. I appreciate it!
 
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Orson
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The wording seems to agree with you. Also if the meaning is that the extra damage is given only if you pass the test, they would have just add the damage number by one instead of giving it an effect.
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soak man
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Huh. I hadn't thought about this, but makes sense. I can't think of a time you would NOT add 1 damage if you passed the test.
 
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Kurt R
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All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
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soakman wrote:
Huh. I hadn't thought about this, but makes sense. I can't think of a time you would NOT add 1 damage if you passed the test.

You'd have to be INSANE not to.
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Humpel DiPumpel
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I think it's worded this way to also apply to instances when the app instructs to "do damage (only) equal to your test result". Not when you didn't score damage at all, because additional damage can only be on top of damage!
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Ben Rod
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Psychonno wrote:
I think it's worded this way to also apply to instances when the app instructs to "do damage (only) equal to your test result". Not when you didn't score damage at all, because additional damage can only be on top of damage!


Though your interpretation is understandable (and in fact is largely why I'm asking this question), I still believe that its wording technically allows an attacker using that weapon to always deal one damage should they choose.

This thread and this thread address sufficiently similar (IMO) situations and respondents (including MoM Black Belt Clipper) believe that the additional (optional) damage would still occur.

At this point, if I had to distill my justification for allowing a player to exercise the option of 1 additional damage during an attack down to its indivisible parts, I'd say they are:

1) To my knowledge, the game rules themselves (as distinguished from a card ability or something) don't define/limit "additional" <whatever> in any way such as "to deal 'additional' damage, you must already be dealing at least 1 damage". [The closest thing I can think of is in FFG's Imperial Assault whereby you can't impose a condition on a target of an attack unless you deal it at least 1 damage.]

2) The card in question (Scalpel) doesn't provide any conditions or limitations beyond that you must be using it in an attack.

When I have a moment, I'll probably go back to the rules one more time to see if "Damage" says anything or is even a section/keyword at all.

Thanks again for all the responses so far! I appreciate the constructive discourse.

edit 1: spelling and tiny word omissions
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Humpel DiPumpel
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I see why one might think so; alas, the effects mentioned are secondary effects of the spell that happen afterwards. Even if you botch the casting. Theme wise it would be missing with a spell and suffering/gaining the effects of the aftermath (like the mentioned area damage in the link). It seems odd to totally miss (fail a dice check) with a scalpel and nonetheless do damage.

However, it of course depends on the flavour texts given by the app. I do not know if there are new ones, that allow such an interpretation, or even if the old ones do...

In any case, that would be rad. I remember a particular session, standing in the friggin' hallway waving my blade like an idiot every round, doing next to nothing the whole game...
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I have been summoned, and I must admit this is an interesting quandary.

On a purely RAW perspective, I would usually argue that additional can be in addition to zero and have done so for several other games.

However, in this case, I feel it definitely does not match intention. The intention seems to be that if you are doing an amount of damage, you may do one more.

This is how I would rule it:

If you are told to "deal X damage" in some way, then you can add 1 to it, even if X has the value 0 (e.g., deal damage equal to the test result with 0 successes). If you are not told to deal damage at all, then you cannot get 1 damage out of this.

One of the cases where I think treating it as always dealing damage would fail is in the type of test where you suffer damage if you fail. Where does the additional go in this case? Would it increase the amount you are taking for failing? it would all be a bit confusing.
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Tyler Lloyd
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Clipper wrote:
One of the cases where I think treating it as always dealing damage would fail is in the type of test where you suffer damage if you fail. Where does the additional go in this case? Would it increase the amount you are taking for failing? it would all be a bit confusing.


Except that, as far as I remember, the app never instructs you to "deal" yourself damage. It tells you to "suffer" damage. So there's no interaction with scalpel's deal additional damage text. Even if there were, the additional damage is optional ("you may").
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Ben Rod
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h/t to Psychonno and Clipper for offering what I consider to be convincing justification that an attacker only gets the optional damage add if the result of the skill test indicates that damage is dealt to the intended target. So, in essence, it is as Psychonno said: you've got be dealing one or more damage in order to deal one additional damage.

Nonetheless, I posted this on the FFG MoM2e forums to at least put it out there for gamemakers to see; gotta keep those rules writers abreast of the questions that their products create! ^__^
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