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Subject: Maximum values possible rss

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Júlio L
Portugal
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Hi all,

I'm playing with the idea of creating some new player mats / character sheets. I'd love to get your feedback.

What maximum values are reasonable to get in the end game?
(I haven't reached LY10+ yet)
For:
A - Survival Limit
B - Insanity (I was close to 30)
C - Extra affinities
D - Armor in a single slot
E - A single base stat
F - A single gear stat
G - Number of tokens for a single stat
H - Round bonus for a single stat

Thanks in advance!
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A) Depends on Innovations, check those then +5 guesstimate it
B) Over 1000(seriously)
C) Probably 3 over gear, I'm guessing
D) 11, maybe 12. Green Knight Armor = 5 +5 for the whole set, +1 from the Lion Shimmering Mane-gear, and maybe there's another +1 elsewhere
E) Limitless, in theory.
F) Dunno.
G) Limitless("Survival into Strength Tokens" fighting art)
H) Don't even get this one.
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Drew Olds
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A - Survival Limit- I'd say about 8 is average. The upper limit is probably around 10 or 12.

B - Insanity- I haven't had a survivor break 50, and most of my survivors maintain under 20 (crazier ones in the teens, saner ones are less than 10).

C - Extra affinities- Most survivors will have none of these, so having any is a big bonus. It will be rare to have more than one on a single survivor.

D - Armor in a single slot- Upper limit will be around 12 or 13.

E - A single base stat - I've had +str get up to about +6, but anything above +2 is something special. I'm not sure how high it is theoretically possible to get it, but it is possible to get up to +5 from a single event.

F - A single gear stat- Strength goes up to about 10. Speed 6 is the highest I've seen on unmodified gear.

G - Number of tokens for a single stat - I've regularly had +4 strength tokens and +2 Speed tokens with the right character (through gear, fighting arts and disorders). There are a lot of ways this could go up, but I don't know that I've seen more than four at once.

H - Round bonus for a single stat- Round bonuses cap pretty low. Probably just +2 speed from a leader drummer.
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I only have base 1.5 game. I'm definately no authority on these stats, but I've been contemplating the same thing for probably the same reasons as you.

A - Survival Limit:

I think I counted 13 in the base game, but expansions can increase it further. 20 might be a safe cap?

B - Insanity:
Infinity. 99 is a good cap if you use 2 lantern dice to track it.

C - Extra Affinities:
Do you mean a Savior's bonus affinity? or all affinities? 5 or 6 of 1 color is really hard to get. I'm guessing 7 would be a realistic cap, but maybe 9 if you want to be safe.

D - Armor Max:
I think at least 15 armor is possible in the base game. 20 may be safe cap for expansions if they come with better armor.

Lantern Armor gear value +5
Lantern Cuirass effect +3
Beacon Shield +2
Shield Proficiency +1
Settlement event +3
Shrine +1

E - A single base stat:
tough one. -9 to 9 is probably a typical range. I haven't seen more than a permanent 8 in my games. Can range really high in extreme edge cases. Strength is the most likely stat to get a high value. A double aged (phoenix) survivor who rolled +1 strength each age, then endeavored at the bone witch, and hunted 20 lions while critically hitting the strange hand every time would have a +33 strength. (This is a ridiculous example of course).

F - A single gear stat:
Highest weapon speed I found Rainbow Katana: 4 (Edit: not counting paired)
Highest weapon strength I found is a Perfect Slayer: 14
Highest weapon accuracy I found is Twilight Sword: 9+ (at WP 0)

G - Number of tokens for a single stat:
Bleeding is up to 7 with unconscious fighter.
Strength is probably the edge case winner again. With Butcher: Lunacy can stack many strength/speed. Forbidden light can stack up to 5 -1 strength tokens by itself. Add Quixotic, Red Fist, etc.
I think I've realistically come close to as many as 9 tokens of one type on the butcher.

H - Round bonus for a single stat:
Do you mean things like "until the end of the round" or "until the start/end of the monster's next turn"?
A skullcap hammer with +3 speed and that rolls all perfect hits, and then surges again for the same would grant -6 speed until the end of the monsters turn.
Temporary Toughness reductions until the end of the round are typically -2 each.
-2 to -4 is probably a typical range if this is what you mean.

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Júlio L
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Thanks for all the replies!

Ouch, things can increase a lot, I guess it makes it a bit more complicated to plan something for all this numbers that avoids needing a pencil or pen.

I was trying to not use d10 dice (normal dice don't have the numbers in a sequence for obvious reasons, but it does make it harder to use them as counters...). Has anyone found d10 with the numbers in a sequence?

H - Yes, I meant "until the end of the round" or "until the start/end of the monster's next turn". Survivors with Legendary Lungs and Mighty strike came to mind.
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Mark Watson
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odinsgrandson wrote:

B - Insanity- I haven't had a survivor break 50, and most of my survivors maintain under 20 (crazier ones in the teens, saner ones are less than 10).

There's at least one +D100 insanity gain
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Jake Stringfellow
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Armour insanity and survival are probably the only things I'd bother coming up with something better than pencil and paper for.

To have separate trackers for different tokens and stats would be a nightmare, you need to track tokens for positive and negative changes separately.
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BG.EXE
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Fairly spoilery about insanity, though written vaguely.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
There’s one flat +1000 insanity somewhere in the game as well. That’d make a mean immortal tank.
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Júlio L
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stringthis wrote:
Armour insanity and survival are probably the only things I'd bother coming up with something better than pencil and paper for.

To have separate trackers for different tokens and stats would be a nightmare, you need to track tokens for positive and negative changes separately.


I'm starting to reach that conclusion also.

I've did some math to have an idea on how many d10 dice needed for all values and something to indicate negative values. I've thought about making nice looking dial counters, getting bigger boards with lots of holes for tokens, etc. All eventually doable if I wanted to trow enough money and time at it (or already had 3d printers, cutters and some xp)... time better invested playing and money better invested saving for wave 4!

So right now I'm planning on doing something to hold all gear cards in place, hold a custom survivor sheet in place (to help with erasing, writing and moving stuff), to keep all eraser parings stuck (I admit I hate seeing these all over the table, floor, stuck into cards, sleeves, tiles and boards... lol) and using up to 6 d10 per player (up to 2d10 for survival, up to 4d10 insanity).

What I think it will be cool is each player having a certain dice color that will be shared with the 30mm base insert. (no confusions for not painted - or painted with some monochrome effect - minis)

What still needs to be thought over is how to allow tokens to be placed in a practical way.

Right now I'm happy with this idea since it fixes most "issues" that were annoying me.

The dream would be getting lantern d10 dice with different cool colors at a reasonable price.
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Fen Batten
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Archonsod wrote:
odinsgrandson wrote:

B - Insanity- I haven't had a survivor break 50, and most of my survivors maintain under 20 (crazier ones in the teens, saner ones are less than 10).

There's at least one +D100 insanity gain

Add a zero and you're there.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Yup, 1000+ is the cap. I guess you can use hex digits to shorten that by one
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Adam Garbett
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I've been wondering about using dice to track things so I might get myself a set of d10s in different colours. Could another alternative be wooden cubes on grids of 0-9?
 
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The Judge
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What is the most population you vets have had?
 
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BG.EXE
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I'm not a vet but I had 38 at one point. That seemed pretty high, but now I'm sort of glad I did it. Fighting only level 3s for the last 8 lantern years I lose on average 1 guy per fight. Then the level 3 Butcher took 4 (14 wounds stopped by invincible shake) and level 3 King's Man took 4 more. Watcher also took I think 8 due to

Spoiler (click to reveal)
bad retinue placement.


Now I have 2 years left and 19 population. More than needed still so I guess I'll probably spread my intimacy events out next campaign. I suppose I'd ideally have 6-8 left right now. This campaign I threw "excess" endeavors to Intimacy rolls before I realized scrap hunting was "a thing".
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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I think the max pop I got was something short of 30, I'd say 28. Never 30, though. With PtY is very simple to have more than 20 quickly, especially if you delay innovating Hovel to get first what you need from other branches of the innovation tree.

The problem with having too many survivors is that I get to reference them by number, so I am not too shy when it's time to suffer a -4 population for the team
 
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Drew Olds
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I think the realistic upper limit for population is around 40. It might actually be a little higher with the 1.5 changes (there are a few more ways to gain endeavors).
 
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BG.EXE
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Like I said I got to 38, but I’ll probably shoot for 28 next campaign. Having 19 sitting around at the end means I got too many.
 
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Dan Wilson
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My first campaign, we actually got to just above 60 at one point but it was a lot of luck. Good settlement events, like lights in the sky, trigger twice and then a third time from a hunt event.
Protect the young,with 2 tinkerers, 4 returning survivors meant 6 endeavors plus collective toil which only increased our endeavors as pop increased. Made 1 Love potion a round with the convert organ to potion, and farmed understanding at the organ grinder, which resulted in a lot of babies by coincidence. This meant more endeavors next year which meant more babies. Twins weren't uncommon, often 1-2 a year.

Making the perfect slayer killed a lot of people and then settlement events started drain pop fast as we started getting unlucky ones like Plague and bone eater. I think we ended with 30 something, but we often used sacrifice to remove disorders to keep the big guns moving.
 
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Júlio L
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Garbinho wrote:
I've been wondering about using dice to track things so I might get myself a set of d10s in different colours. Could another alternative be wooden cubes on grids of 0-9?


I thought of that also. But then I realized how big the grid needed to be :'(
 
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Júlio L
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About the insanity. It's always a choice to have counters for just 0-99 and just write hundreds and thousands on the survivor sheet. (it's rare anyway)

And it means less dice, smaller grids, smaller dials, etc.
 
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