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Subject: Expanding the use of Explore and Colonization rss

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Grant Hopwood
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So the one complaint players have had after a number of games, is the lack of size of the galaxy.

They don't like the idea that after two explores by each player, a) the entire galaxy has been explored, and b) they're right next to each other within immediate striking distance.

Anyone played with any changes in larger layouts?

For example a larger layout with less +1 antimatter objects in the galactic market?

Or

Allowing the explore action to reveal new tiles on the fringes of the galaxy? IE: First explore action would let the player place a new anomaly and system face down on the fringe. Any new system tiles would need to be touching at least two anomalies/systems (so as to provide at least two paths to attack it.) Second explore action would allow a player to flip/reveal them. Once again would need to remove any other items from galactic market and card decks to balance.
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Team Ski
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Kiwi187 wrote:
So the one complaint players have had after a number of games, is the lack of size of the galaxy.

They don't like the idea that after two explores by each player, a) the entire galaxy has been explored, and b) they're right next to each other within immediate striking distance.

Anyone played with any changes in larger layouts?

For example a larger layout with less +1 antimatter objects in the galactic market?

Or

Allowing the explore action to reveal new tiles on the fringes of the galaxy? IE: First explore action would let the player place a new anomaly and system face down on the fringe. Any new system tiles would need to be touching at least two anomalies/systems (so as to provide at least two paths to attack it.) Second explore action would allow a player to flip/reveal them. Once again would need to remove any other items from galactic market and card decks to balance.


Good question! I still have not received my game, so I can't answer that....

-Ski
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Nisses Clan Skryre
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I've added something different to give the exploration action use after the initial exploring of the galaxy.
But that doesn't address this complaint of the galaxy being too small...

Just a few questions on this, since I like the idea.

- Do both actions (putting down and flipping) need to happen in the same turn?
- Can a different player take the second action and steal the "work" of the first one? Or does the first player put down a marker to "claim" his territory in some way? Which then begs the question: can a different player put down a marker as well? That could make for an interesting race of sorts.

Edit:
Took another look at my variant that I only playtested once (see variants forum)

I think I'd like to combine the two.

With an exploration action, add an anomaly & planet, put a marker on both. A different player can also add a marker on both with the same action.
A second action adds again 2 markers.
A third action flips them over. Whoever is able to do this, gains 1 antimatter point. From that moment, the planet & anomaly are part of the board.

That should give Exploration a little boost compared to the other X's, while not making the board different (except of course, slightly larger )

Also, use a drawstack for the new planets, that contain a 1 Empty Space tiles for every 3-4 regular planets. That way, it is not a guaranteed 1 antimatter point for 3 actions.

Finally, remove 2 market tokens that give direct antimatter points.
Or if you feel like that invalidates the Exploit a bit, raise the victory condition.

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Grant Hopwood
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- Do both actions (putting down and flipping) need to happen in the same turn?

No. Just requires two Explore actions.

- Can a different player take the second action and steal the "work" of the first one?

Certainly. I was just basing this idea off of Explore actions. So if another player is close by enough to do an explore and reveal the tiles he can do so. That also means additional actions to take control of those revealed systems are needed as well. (Jumps/assault/colonize, etc.) Which in turn takes actions away from those other actions needed that round. More trade offs (I would really like that extra 3 crystal income from that new system vs hmmm do I need to build more defense...)

Draw stack would be used.

I never really liked the structures/mercenary ships that granted antimatter so those would be the first to go. More systems would mean more antimatter and crystals, but more area to have to protect.
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Grant Hopwood
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With above, tossing around the idea of

New systems can not be placed until all original systems at start of game (not anomalies) have been revealed. (Encourages immediate confrontation.)

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Nisses Clan Skryre
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Oh right...
Yes, that was part of my original idea as well.
You can only explore the fringes when all original tiles are revealed.



Removing the tokens weakens Exploit as a means of winning the game though.

I'd rather have all 4 categories of actions add something.

If I could, I'd even think of something to do with Diplomacy in this area



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Grant Hopwood
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Nisses wrote:
Oh right...
Yes, that was part of my original idea as well.
You can only explore the fringes when all original tiles are revealed.



Removing the tokens weakens Exploit as a means of winning the game though.

I'd rather have all 4 categories of actions add something.

If I could, I'd even think of something to do with Diplomacy in this area :)





Yeah, I might try leaving the +1 antimatter structures in place. But the +1 antimatter mercenaries always seemed wrong to me.

Diplomacy seems ok where it is for me. For now I'm the only player who tends to use diplomacy and its been really powerful. Hostile systems are really easy to dump someone out of. Need to reduce the number of regiments before attacking? Send a system down to unrest. Someone about to take over one of your systems you can't defend? Take a diplomacy action right after their assault and deny them the system before the status phase.
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Nisses Clan Skryre
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It can be downright nasty. I suppose you're right about Diplomacy being fine where it is at.

Leaves the mercenaries with AP.
Maybe not the worst idea to leave them out, lower the amount of potential VP at least a little bit.

There's also an artifact that allows you to place extra planets btw. Might want to leave that one out if you let everyone add planets in a different way.


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gary rembo
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Hmmmm I’m confused.
I’m playing a 2 player layout and that only allows you to explore four tiles/anomalies.
That’s not even close to the whole map even in 2 player.

My feeling is the map size keeps thing exciting and that you are on each other’s door steps.
Also this facilitates the diplomacy options.
A larger galaxy would mirror the opening two hours of a game of imperium as you expand and establish borders and try not to fall asleep. (Just kidding I love imperium for different reasons)
I don’t think this is supposed to be that game.
The boarders have already been established (in an earlier episode lol)
And now the different races are on each other’s doorstep.
Much more fun lol.

If it bothers you here are some solutions.
Build a bigger galaxy.
Limit each player to only using each action once with the exception of the mission action of course.

Taking twilight imperium as an example the whole board begins revealed
This is not a long game compared to some so for me the quicker I’m aware of what out there the better lol.

Also in the manual it clearly says to go to Facebook to see new and share your own designs.
It’s your game make bigger maps play how you like.
I like the fact the s**t hits the fan in short order.
This feels more like a game of conflict for me not a game of exploration.
For that I would highly recommend emergence event.
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Nisses Clan Skryre
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Jokerman wrote:
This feels more like a game of conflict for me not a game of exploration.


The crux of your point and mine, right there

I'd rather up the exploration part a bit as well, but not if that means the game takes a whole extra hour to finish.
So only allow this extra exploration once the rest is explored, by which time you're also engaged with your opponents already.

Focusing your all on exploration at that point, will come with serious drawbacks, because it will leave you exposed to them.
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gary rembo
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I see what you are saying.
Another restriction is the amount of units available in the box which is finite even with using the faction markers as counters to represent ships.
Last game I played toward the end we had run out of markers or units.
The rule book does say if you don’t have it you can’t use it.
On 2nd thought if you were to make a larger map may run out of units.
I have added some mini chips to my set to help with this.
Also if a fleet is less than 4 you cannot move through them.
 
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Grant Hopwood
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We played a large four player long game over Christmas using all the systems. Didn't have any problems with players turtling or not enough conflict.

Even with all the systems in play, you still need the antimatter producing structures and artifacts in play otherwise the game can take too long. So if you decide to use any additional exploration home rules, you'll still want to keep those game pieces in play.
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