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Clockwork Wars» Forums » General

Subject: First turn spymaster actions rss

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Jonathan Fried
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Unless I'm missing something, it appears that 2 of the spymaster actions (gambit, tactical ops) are essentially worthless in the first turn. That means that in a 5 player game, the last player gets screwed.

How do people handle this or am I overlooking something?
 
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Mark Buetow
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Jonbone wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, it appears that 2 of the spymaster actions (gambit, tactical ops) are essentially worthless in the first turn. That means that in a 5 player game, the last player gets screwed.

How do people handle this or am I overlooking something?


Why are they screwed? They will get *something.*

 
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Gold Sirius
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Jonbone wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, it appears that 2 of the spymaster actions (gambit, tactical ops) are essentially worthless in the first turn. That means that in a 5 player game, the last player gets screwed.

How do people handle this or am I overlooking something?


You're right. The 5th player doesn't get much the first turn.
 
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So So
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Check out variants for ideas for useful spymaster actions.
 
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Rock Bronson

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Tac Ops isn't useless your first turn amigo. Just if you're playing it safe with happy capitols safely ensconced in far corners of the board... it's a modular board after all. I like to start them close sometimes!

Don't get me wrong, I had the same reaction to my options in that first turn. Certainly valid, those two actions are clearly less desireable. I don't know if I'd call it getting screwed though. Seems melodramatic to me- it's not going to lose you the game.
 
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Hassan Lopez
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Here's my suggestion (using 20/20 hindsight): use the blank Spymaster tiles to create the following additional options and then pick which ones (5? 6? 7? 8?!) you want to include in your games...

1. Conscription: (just another copy of this basic option)
2. Retreat: remove up to 2 Soldiers from any 1 territory and bring them back into your recruitment pool
3. Reverse Engineering: convert up to 2 of your IP tokens into another type (e.g., Religion --> Science; credit to BGG user So So for this one)

Only option #1 really helps with the 1st-turn/5-player problem you describe. But you could always make a second copy of "R&D" if you want to get even more Espionage cards into the mix!

 
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Gold Sirius
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severian73 wrote:
But you could always make a second copy of "R&D" if you want to get even more Espionage cards into the mix!



Please no. Clockwork Wars is just shy of greatness BECAUSE of those Espionage cards. They make the game too random and as a result diminish its value.

Too bad, I love the game otherwise. I'm trying to think of a way to remove those cards. Replacing R&D by Retreat could be a good idea.
 
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Hassan Lopez
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GoldSirius wrote:
severian73 wrote:
But you could always make a second copy of "R&D" if you want to get even more Espionage cards into the mix!



Please no. Clockwork Wars is just shy of greatness BECAUSE of those Espionage cards. They make the game too random and as a result diminish its value.

Too bad, I love the game otherwise. I'm trying to think of a way to remove those cards. Replacing R&D by Retreat could be a good idea.


Ha! Some people love 'em, some people hate 'em. I'd suggest instead of removing Espionage cards entirely, you use my drafting variant:

Espionage Rules Variant

A. Initial Draft of Espionage Cards
- Remove Surveillance from the deck and return it to the box.
- During Set-Up, deal 3 Espionage Cards to each player. Return the remaining Espionage cards to the box - they will not be used.
- Players should choose 1 and pass the remaining 2 to the player to their left (clockwise).
- Continue the draft until each player has 3 Espionage cards in hand. These are the only Espionage cards you'll get during the game, so be careful what you choose!
- Note that you'll have some information on what your clockwise neighbor is holding.

B. Revised Spymaster Action: R&D
- R&D no longer provides an Espionage card.
- Rather, if you take this action, immediately place 2 workers from your reserve into the Court.

C. Revised cost of playing Espionage cards
- The cost of playing Espionage cards now increases as the game goes on.
- During the Early Age, cards still cost 1 Spy.
- During the Middle Age, they cost 2 Spies.
- During the Late Age, it costs 3 Spies to play one.
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Gold Sirius
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severian73 wrote:
GoldSirius wrote:
severian73 wrote:
But you could always make a second copy of "R&D" if you want to get even more Espionage cards into the mix!



Please no. Clockwork Wars is just shy of greatness BECAUSE of those Espionage cards. They make the game too random and as a result diminish its value.

Too bad, I love the game otherwise. I'm trying to think of a way to remove those cards. Replacing R&D by Retreat could be a good idea.


Ha! Some people love 'em, some people hate 'em. I'd suggest instead of removing Espionage cards entirely, you use my drafting variant:

Espionage Rules Variant

A. Initial Draft of Espionage Cards
- Remove Surveillance from the deck and return it to the box.
- During Set-Up, deal 3 Espionage Cards to each player. Return the remaining Espionage cards to the box - they will not be used.
- Players should choose 1 and pass the remaining 2 to the player to their left (clockwise).
- Continue the draft until each player has 3 Espionage cards in hand. These are the only Espionage cards you'll get during the game, so be careful what you choose!
- Note that you'll have some information on what your clockwise neighbor is holding.

B. Revised Spymaster Action: R&D
- R&D no longer provides an Espionage card.
- Rather, if you take this action, immediately place 2 workers from your reserve into the Court.

C. Revised cost of playing Espionage cards
- The cost of playing Espionage cards now increases as the game goes on.
- During the Early Age, cards still cost 1 Spy.
- During the Middle Age, they cost 2 Spies.
- During the Late Age, it costs 3 Spies to play one.


Yes I've seen this in another topic. I thought this looked interesting, but the thing is... in a 4 or 5-player game, that means there will be even MORE Espionage cards in play!

4 players, every player starts with 1 card, and 7 rounds of play. That makes at the very most 11 cards that can be played. With 3 cards each to start... we would have 12 total!

Of course, the advantage is that at least we'd know some of the cards beforehand. And I like the added cost of spies for each age, but this is mitigated by the new 'add 2 spies to court' action. Which means doesn't really make it cost that much more after all. I'm thinking maybe do the same but keep only 2 cards. Draft three and pass around 3 times, but each player can only keep 2 cards.

Or keep the game the same (keep R&D) except the spy cost increases anyway in each age. That's a good idea actually.
 
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