Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
31 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Old School Tactical» Forums » Rules

Subject: setup rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm looking for some clarification on setup.

I'm doing the 'A Deadly Race' scenario and there's only five setup hexes for each side. The Germans have more than five vehicles and not all can take riders. Same idea for the Russian side.

How to I setup the scenario when there doesn't seem to be enough hexes to start out with?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
I'm looking for some clarification on setup.

I'm doing the 'A Deadly Race' scenario and there's only five setup hexes for each side. The Germans have more than five vehicles and not all can take riders. Same idea for the Russian side.

How to I setup the scenario when there doesn't seem to be enough hexes to start out with?


Stacking?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
klkitchens wrote:

Stacking?


Nope. For the Germans they have something like (off the top of my head) 6 vehicles, but only three take riders, and about 6 or 7 troops, and one LMG.

All to fit in five hexes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

Stacking?


Nope. For the Germans they have something like (off the top of my head) 6 vehicles, but only three take riders, and about 6 or 7 troops, and one LMG.

All to fit in five hexes.


Stacking is two units. and two leaders.

Hex 1: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit) + leader (Ekhardt)
Hex 2: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit)
Hex 3: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Vehicle (1 unit)
Hex 4: Vehicle
Hex 5: Vehicle

Six vehicles
Four Rifle
1 Leader all in five hexes. LMG doesn't count toward stacking limits so put whereever.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
klkitchens wrote:

Stacking is two units. and two leaders.

Hex 1: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit) + leader (Ekhardt)
Hex 2: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit)
Hex 3: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Vehicle (1 unit)
Hex 4: Vehicle
Hex 5: Vehicle

Six vehicles
Four Rifle
1 Leader all in five hexes. LMG doesn't count toward stacking limits so put whereever.


Wha? I'm confused.

I have six vehicles, 4 rifle units, one Lieut, and one LMG.

I only have five hexes. What would I do with the sixth vehicle? And 18/2 states that a vehicle can only take one unit. I have four rifle units and only three vehicles that can take riders.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

Stacking is two units. and two leaders.

Hex 1: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit) + leader (Ekhardt)
Hex 2: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Rifle (1 unit)
Hex 3: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Vehicle (1 unit)
Hex 4: Vehicle
Hex 5: Vehicle

Six vehicles
Four Rifle
1 Leader all in five hexes. LMG doesn't count toward stacking limits so put whereever.


Wha? I'm confused.

I have six vehicles, 4 rifle units, one Lieut, and one LMG.

I only have five hexes. What would I do with the sixth vehicle? And 18/2 states that a vehicle can only take one unit. I have four rifle units and only three vehicles that can take riders.


I spelled it out above how you could stack the units.

Only three vehicles have riders. Vehicle with a rider counts as ONE UNIT for stacking purposes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
klkitchens wrote:

Hex 3: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Vehicle (1 unit)


Right, but I don't think you're allowed to stack vehicles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
klkitchens wrote:

Hex 3: Vehicle + Rifle Rider (1 unit) + Vehicle (1 unit)


Right, but I don't think you're allowed to stack vehicles.


Don't see that excluded in the rules, hence my answer.

Two UNITS are allowed. A vehicle with or without a rider is one unit, so two units can be two vehicles.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
United States
West Nyack
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
Right, but I don't think you're allowed to stack vehicles.

Two vehicles are definitely allowed to stack.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?


Nope.

Stacking is not grouping.

Stacking just refers to multiple units in the same hex. Normally "stacked" for space reasons. Don't mean they are moving/acting as one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Gottesman
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?


A group is a 2 units led by a leader. While related to stacking, it is not equivalent to stacking.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not gonna lie. I'm a bit confused by stacks and groups now, but I'll have another read of those bits in the rule book.

Thanks for the advice guys!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Pacitto
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
Not gonna lie. I'm a bit confused by stacks and groups now, but I'll have another read of those bits in the rule book.

Thanks for the advice guys!


I think of it this way:

Stacks = legal amount of units (squads, leaders and or vehicles in a hex.

Groups = Multiple units (Squads) that are combined together to perform an action like firing or moving.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
United States
West Nyack
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).

That said, since day one I've had trouble getting a handle on the OST rules. It seems so easy on the surface but always seemed to raise questions for me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Nicholls
Australia
Perth
Western Australia
flag msg tools
wsmithjr wrote:
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).

That said, since day one I've had trouble getting a handle on the OST rules. It seems so easy on the surface but always seemed to raise questions for me.

It is a nice system so I hope you can get over the learning curve. There is a good rules summary available. I also recommend using the updated rules for OST 2 which are a bit better organised and explain some of the rules more clearly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin L. Kitchens
United States
Gainesville
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Snowflakes Melt
badge
Snowflakes Melt
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wsmithjr wrote:
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).


Except, in nearly every single wargame ever made... stacking limit for a hex has nothing to do with group activities. I don't think OST needs to be the special case to explain what is pretty normal across the board.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shayne Logan
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When units are stacked in a hex, they are just units occupying a 50m space.
Most times they are stacked in the same hex just because the size of the board forces this.

Stacking limits are 2 units per hex ( can be 2 vehicles )
A vehicle with a passenger counts as 1 unit for stacking purposes.

It is only when the units perform actions together do they act as a 'Group', Group Fire, Group Move.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamm22 wrote:
When units are stacked in a hex, they are just units occupying a 50m space.
Most times they are stacked in the same hex just because the size of the board forces this.

Stacking limits are 2 units per hex ( can be 2 vehicles )
A vehicle with a passenger counts as 1 unit for stacking purposes.

It is only when the units perform actions together do they act as a 'Group', Group Fire, Group Move.


Riiiiiight. Gotcha.

So it's not so much stacking, more just 'in the same space'?

As Kevin previously said with the two vehicles and one unit it means the vehicle and rider are one unit, and the other vehicle is unit 2.

Got it now.

Thanks!
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kev.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Read & Watch at www.bigboardgaming.com
Avatar
klkitchens wrote:
wsmithjr wrote:
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).


Except, in nearly every single wargame ever made... stacking limit for a hex has nothing to do with group activities. I don't think OST needs to be the special case to explain what is pretty normal across the board.

No need to be a dick about it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kev.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Read & Watch at www.bigboardgaming.com
Avatar
klkitchens wrote:
hipshot wrote:
klkitchens wrote:
wsmithjr wrote:
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).


Except, in nearly every single wargame ever made... stacking limit for a hex has nothing to do with group activities. I don't think OST needs to be the special case to explain what is pretty normal across the board.

No need to be a dick about it.


Which clearly I wasn't... But boy you sure like to be.

You know your condescending attitude is not endearing to me and I have a tiny bit of experience being the butt of such talk. For someone trying to learn a game it might be perceived and something less friendly. But you carry on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Friend
United States
Sierra Vista
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wsmithjr wrote:
ronnietucker wrote:
I suppose... but 19/7 does say 'Vehicles may not group move'.

Surely a stack of vehicles is a group?

For me, the very fact that it says that vehicles may NOT move in a group, implies that vehicles could be stacked together in the same hex. Since they can be stacked together, a rule is needed to clarify that they can not move together like infantry can (with a leader).

That said, since day one I've had trouble getting a handle on the OST rules. It seems so easy on the surface but always seemed to raise questions for me.


Warren, and Ronnie, what I do regarding rules that may not be clear enough for me leaving me with questions, I jot them down and play through doing what I think is correct. Then when you have a list of questions post them here. Many of us players may have the dame questikns. If one of us can't answer, Shayne is (fortunately for us) very active here and will answer.
That way your questions and the answers will benefit all of us.

And as was mentioned, if you don't yet have OST Vol II, definitely go to FPG's website and download rules version 5.5. While 5.25 that came with Vol I aren't bad, 5.5 is definitely better. In format, organization and clarity.
Cheers.
Chris
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
friendc wrote:

And as was mentioned, if you don't yet have OST Vol II, definitely go to FPG's website and download rules version 5.5. While 5.25 that came with Vol I aren't bad, 5.5 is definitely better. In format, organization and clarity.


I'll definitely have a look at v5.5.

Thanks for the advice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronnie Tucker
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is it legal to have a truck with one squad in it in the same hex as a tank with, say, two squads and a leader?

The idea being to move both (for 1 IP) then, later, split them to have the truck and one squad (1 IP) go one way, and the tank and others (1 IP) go another way.

Is that legit?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
United States
West Nyack
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ronnietucker wrote:
Is it legal to have a truck with one squad in it in the same hex as a tank with, say, two squads and a leader?

The idea being to move both (for 1 IP) then, later, split them to have the truck and one squad (1 IP) go one way, and the tank and others (1 IP) go another way.

Is that legit?

No, it's not legit. You can have at most 2 units stacked in a hex. So, the truck with squad passenger counts as 1 unit ... until it unloads at which point it counts as 2 units. You *could* have the truck w/passenger AND the tank with 1 infantry, but only if that infantry was a passenger on the tank. You can't have 2 infantry units loaded on the same vehicle.

In your example as is, you actually have 4 units stacked in the same hex.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.