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Subject: We all died outside of the CB: Who "wins"? rss

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Jon Vallerand
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So we are your cliché socially inept geeks, and we need help settling this dispute.

We played a three player game of C!i!S!, and I died first: by pulling the extra four cubes a turn, I killed Player B, who killed Player C on her extra 4 cubes per turn. (first question: is it 4 cubes for each player who's KO/escaped, or only the first to do so?) None of us were in the Cargo Bay, so none of us scored our points.

We've been arguing:
I say that since I died first, and then killed them, I should be the winner. I understand this argument holds no ground, I just really sucked and it's my only claim to be part of the discussion.

Player B says that since we all died, might as well count our scores, and she's way in the lead, and so deserves to win.

Player C says that since we all have 0, we should look at the tie-breaker, and therefore whoever has the largest artefact (him) should win. He also has a side-argument of dying last.

Colleague D, who didn't play and is tired of us arguing while he's trying to work, says we just spent an hour and a half playing a game were we all died, and so all lost, both in the game and in life. He's kinda mean, but he works out so we're nice to him, we stopped arguing and took it online.

TL;DR:
If we all die outside the Cargo Bay, does the largest artefact win, or do we all lose?
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Ted Duby
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If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
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Lord Eradikus wins!
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Bobby Warren
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I'd say the largest artifact would win, but then nature has been kind to me. shake
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Lawrence Love
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You all lose equally IMO
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Odyzeus Longbow
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JVallerand wrote:


TL;DR:
If we all die outside the Cargo Bay, does the largest artefact win, or do we all lose?

Cool story, and love your writing.
This is a push your luck game, with a few other elements sprinkled in.
There is no reward for trying and failing, this game is about weighing risk vs reward and making the right choice.
Thematically it makes absoloutly no sense to reward whomever took the biggest risk, went the deepest, took the biggest artifact, anmd failed to come out alive.

You all lose equally.
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Worf Roz
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You all lose, and Lord Eradikus wins. Remember why you're on his ship - to steal from Lord Eradikus. The fact no one made it out means you are all dead. If you died in the cargo bay your associates would drag your corpse off the ship and claim whatever spoils there were. Since none if you made it, your associates left penniless.

You can contemplate someone winning, but no one made it back to tell your tale, no one got anything off the ship, you all fade into infamy. Your relatives don't even have a body - you just disappeared.
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Joe
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Colleague D for the win! (OK, so not the mean part of losing at life, but yeah, you all lost)
 
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Jon Vallerand
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newsaidin wrote:
JVallerand wrote:


TL;DR:
If we all die outside the Cargo Bay, does the largest artefact win, or do we all lose?

Cool story, and love your writing.


Thank you!

tlhIngan wrote:
You all lose, and Lord Eradikus wins. Remember why you're on his ship - to steal from Lord Eradikus. The fact no one made it out means you are all dead. If you died in the cargo bay your associates would drag your corpse off the ship and claim whatever spoils there were. Since none if you made it, your associates left penniless.

You can contemplate someone winning, but no one made it back to tell your tale, no one got anything off the ship, you all fade into infamy. Your relatives don't even have a body - you just disappeared.


Hmmm, see, I saw the Cargo Bay rule as you had a chance to hide your stuff before getting caught, so your loot reached your next of kin, even if you did not make it out. Much less grim your way!
 
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Jared Voshall
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Obvious answer is nobody wins, but that's obviously not a satisfying answer for your group. As such, I would fall back to the Tie Breaker of the largest artifact - this is a push your luck game, after all, so it makes sense to me to reward the player who took the biggest risk in this particular situation, as rare as it may be.

Honestly, I don't see this as being a particularly common scenario. It can happen, sure - but in my experience, Damage doesn't really start flying around until the end of the game anyways - and by then, you should all be booking it out of there anyways. It's perfectly reasonable to cross the entire ship into the cargo bay in a couple of turns (the opponent I played yesterday having done exactly that after I fled the ship) - but it does take some planning ahead of time.
 
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Odyzeus Longbow
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Magius wrote:
Obvious answer is nobody wins, but that's obviously not a satisfying answer for your group. As such, I would fall back to the Tie Breaker of the largest artifact - this is a push your luck game, after all, so it makes sense to me to reward the player who took the biggest risk in this particular situation, as rare as it may be.

Honestly, I don't see this as being a particularly common scenario. It can happen, sure - but in my experience, Damage doesn't really start flying around until the end of the game anyways - and by then, you should all be booking it out of there anyways. It's perfectly reasonable to cross the entire ship into the cargo bay in a couple of turns (the opponent I played yesterday having done exactly that after I fled the ship) - but it does take some planning ahead of time.

He took the risk and it didn't pay off.
If anything he should in LAST place and the one closest to the exit be the winner.
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Jared Voshall
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newsaidin wrote:
Magius wrote:
Obvious answer is nobody wins, but that's obviously not a satisfying answer for your group. As such, I would fall back to the Tie Breaker of the largest artifact - this is a push your luck game, after all, so it makes sense to me to reward the player who took the biggest risk in this particular situation, as rare as it may be.

Honestly, I don't see this as being a particularly common scenario. It can happen, sure - but in my experience, Damage doesn't really start flying around until the end of the game anyways - and by then, you should all be booking it out of there anyways. It's perfectly reasonable to cross the entire ship into the cargo bay in a couple of turns (the opponent I played yesterday having done exactly that after I fled the ship) - but it does take some planning ahead of time.

He took the risk and it didn't pay off.
If anything he should in LAST place and the one closest to the exit be the winner.


That is true, and I wouldn't argue against that being a good tiebreaker in this situation. However, this should be an extremely rare situation, especially as players become familiar with the game and the nuances of the rules. This would only ever come into play if no one reaches the cargo bay - something I've never seen happen in the original, personally (though I did see one player not make it far enough to get what they had grabbed, once), though I've not played enough of this version to say if it's more common. It does seem to have a much tougher end game, which accelerates much more quickly than the original - but I'm not sure if that's enough to make a difference yet.
 
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Jon Vallerand
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Magius wrote:
I've not played enough of this version to say if it's more common. It does seem to have a much tougher end game, which accelerates much more quickly than the original - but I'm not sure if that's enough to make a difference yet.


I can tell you it happened in 0% of my Clank games, and in 33% of my in Space games. Granted, that's 0 of 2 and 1 of 3.
 
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Odyzeus Longbow
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Nearly 30 games combined, and it never happened. But I can see a cascade like this happening in Space! Epic is lyrics with the bounty hunters in the sack.
 
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Rob Pearson
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We had this happen in a 4 player game last night. Early on there were a lot of high cost cards and enemies and we all started off rather slowly. We also hit the top of the rage track before we all got an artifact due to hacking, artifacts, and all of the archives coming out. We then pulled a bunch of red cubes and it cascaded. One player died and on their next turn they killed the next, who killed the next, who killed the last. We were probably a couple of turns away from anyone getting back to safety.

In the original Clank I don't think this would ever happen. In the new rules I could see it being a possibility in the right circumstances. I mean it has happened in 50% of my games so far...

Not sure I would have played again after this experience if it was my first, but I think this was an anomaly.
 
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Jon Vallerand
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repthrd wrote:
Not sure I would have played again after this experience if it was my first, but I think this was an anomaly.


In our case, we were to blame: we all went full reckless, skipped all healing, and went for large artifacts. As such, we all laughed and still had a good time.

I could see how card distribution and module selection could lead to a death trap, and as such a bad experience. Hang in there!
 
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Odyzeus Longbow
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On the other hand, card distribution could cause the opposite - we had games where the entire dungeon row was filled with
Expensive Cards
Strong Enemies
Things no one wanted to buy.

If no cards are bought, there are no attacks. You could be almost to the treasures with everyone at almost full health.

But that's why every game is different. This isn't Agricola..
 
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