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Baptism By Fire: The Battle of Kasserine» Forums » Rules

Subject: Scenario 5.5 setup : units missing. rss

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Oscar Oliver
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Hi,
we're setting up the 5.5 scenario and we cannot locate situation of two units from Stark Inf : the 805 TD Bn and I/13 Tk Co.

The errata corrects the left over of 1 Inf (the 2/26 Inf Bn) but we did not found any reference to this two units.

Oscar.
Snafu Team.
 
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Randy Strader
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Teofilus wrote:
Hi,
we're setting up the 5.5 scenario and we cannot locate situation of two units from Stark Inf : the 805 TD Bn and I/13 Tk Co.

The errata corrects the left over of 1 Inf (the 2/26 Inf Bn) but we did not found any reference to this two units.

Oscar.
Snafu Team.


Hello Oscar and TF Snafu,
There is some discussion of those units and their situation over on CSW here:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dd349d6/6782

Regards,
Randy
 
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Martin Spetz

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If they’re not listed in the setup, then they’re not in play for that scenario.
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Oscar Oliver
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Hugewally wrote:
If they’re not listed in the setup, then they’re not in play for that scenario.


Nor in the deadpile? Some units from Stark ara non-rebuildable thus if eliminated they are gone but those two units are simply missing.. and one of them was received as reinformcement the turn before the scenario start.

I'm gonna check that @!*#~ comsinworld thing ... why, Lord, why comsimworld? cry
 
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Oscar Oliver
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Ok, I transcript from Comsimworld :
Quote:
Carl Fung - Apr 30, 2017 10:35 pm (#6619 Total: 7906)
[Fung, Carl]

I/13 Arm Co and 805 TD Bn are eliminated by the start of the scenario but cannot be rebuilt so they are not listed in the dead pile to do so.

2/26 Inf Bn is missing in the set up. Have them set up in A33.31


Then
Quote:
Lionel Martinez - May 1, 2017 3:03 am (#6622 Total: 7906)

[Martinez, Lionel]
Scenario 5.5 set up

Thank you Carl for your answer.

Those counters are not marked with a "no rebuild indicator" though.


and finally
Quote:
Carl Fung - May 1, 2017 8:24 am (#6632 Total: 7906)

[Fung, Carl]

You are looking at this a bit too literally. Basically, I don't want you to rebuild those units. Those units were eliminated in the defense at Kasserine Pass. In the historical context, the Kasserine defense collapsed and the AV replacements are better spent on the remaining armor forces on the map.


So, I suggest to add to escenario information : Remove from play 805 TD and I/13 Arm Co to prevent some accountant players from look three times the rules, check the errata twice, engage in an argument about what happened to those counters...

And, as veteran player... I feel it too arbitrary. Let me, the player, decide how are my AV replacements "better spent" ... after all It's a game, not a History Book!

(edited to correct spelling, I write english above my possibilities)
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Martin Spetz

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Of course, there’s nothing stopping someone from making a ‘House Rule’ about them starting in the dead pile.
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Carl Fung
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Hugewally wrote:
Of course, there’s nothing stopping someone from making a ‘House Rule’ about them starting in the dead pile.


If I don't want them in the scenario, they aren't in the scenario. If one follows the scenario, it lists all the units needed for play. There is no need to worry about units not listed. The exception is the 1st Inf Div unit that was left off by accident.

In scenario 5.5 which is only 3 turns long, the Allies are better served to refill units that are on the map or listed in the dead pile.
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Martin Spetz

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Which 1st Inf Div unit is that?
 
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Carl Fung
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2/26 as listed above
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Oscar Oliver
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calvinboy24 wrote:
There is no need to worry about units not listed. The exception is the 1st Inf Div unit that was left off by accident.


With all due respect, is not about the need, but about things that happen. Our gaming group was ten minuts stopped argueing about those two units, after checking the errata. All I ask is a clarification... adding to the living rules "remove from play" the units not in play.

In a metaphysical discussion about wargaming I will challenge your power as developper/designer/whatever, but let me stay practical and just say that a sentence can avoid some confussion for those who are not in your mind nor have your knowledge of the game.

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Joe Hepp
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Teofilus wrote:
All I ask is a clarification... adding to the living rules "remove from play" the units not in play.

What other games do this?

About the most I could see being done is adding something in the generic scenario setup instructions saying: "Units not listed in a scenario are not used in that scenario." But even that seems like overkill.
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Martin Spetz

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Well, the kicker is, is there not at least one scenario in BoF that has a listing of units not in play, besides those that start in the dead pile?.
 
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Martí Cabré

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A true wargamer when setting up a random scenario of an unplayed game will always know when a unit not listed must be in the dead pile available for rebuild, when a unit not listed must be in the dead pile but not available for rebuild, when a unit not listed must be checked out in the internet because it was not listed by errata and when a unit not listed must be left in the box because the designer of the scenario did not want that unit in his scenario.

If you can’t do that, don’t play wargames.
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