Martin Godolakis
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I'm playing this game on BGA and the game wont let me move my sled north from land to frozen sea. Here's the game state(I'm white player):



Can someone explain the rules behind this?
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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I think that tiles where the upper and lower parts are separated by water are considered separated even if the tile is partially frozen. The art on the tile with your ship makes it look like a small piece of land extends into the frozen area but functionally it should work the same as the tile to the left of your ship. This tile also has water between the upper and lower parts but the art clearly separates them.

I can't tell for sure if my interpretation is right but I think the game would be difficult to play if you would have to measure exactly where the line crosses the tile. (It's clear from your image but there may be less clear tiles in the game.)
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Martin Godolakis
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so given that interpretation, what can I do?
All my crewmen are on the sled so I can more or less withdraw from the game, since I'm completely stranded on the island for the rest of the game?
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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Hm, I'm afraid so. Your ship cannot move to the island due to not having any crew. Your sledge cannot leave the island since the sea around it won't freeze. Northwest Passage can be quite unforgiving if you put all crew in the sledge.
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Martin Godolakis
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nhjelmberg wrote:
Hm, I'm afraid so [snip] Northwest Passage can be quite unforgiving if you put all crew in the sledge.


bummer, and I can definitely recommend BGA for playing and learning games. And now I did it the hard way
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Darin Bolyard
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Oak Grove
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Shame though. If I were playing a live game, I would interpret that situation in Martin's favor, as the land clearly meets the ice. No measurement is needed.
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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The designer is also a BGG user so I hope we get an official interpretation.

This would also be important for ship movement: if the sledge can move from South to North on that tile, then it must mean that a ship cannot move from East to West past that tile.

But that must also mean that a ship on that tile at the time when the water freezes must choose where on the tile it is located. There is a rule that you must choose where the sledge is located when the water thaws but there is no similar rule for ships when the water freezes.

Again, "my" case isn't very strong so I hope for an official answer.
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nhjelmberg wrote:
...
Again, "my" case isn't very strong so I hope for an official answer.


Not sure about the official ruling, but from a software design standpoint your interpretation is much easier to implement. I can see why it was done that way for the online implementation - even though I'd agree with Darin and rule in Martin's favor if playing in person.
 
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Martin Godolakis
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I was thinking some more about the situation and have a question about sled movement. Does it always move one tile per turn?
If that is the case, then I should be able to put a new tile north of the current tile with one worker, and then move to that tile with my next worker?
 
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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goonzo wrote:
I was thinking some more about the situation and have a question about sled movement. Does it always move one tile per turn?
If that is the case, then I should be able to put a new tile north of the current tile with one worker, and then move to that tile with my next worker?


For placement of tiles, it doesn't matter whether you can actually move to a space or not. As long as it is adjacent to a tile where you have a ship or sledge with actions left, you may use an action to place a tile there. You may also move one entire tile so if there hadn't been water between your sledge and the frozen part (right or wrong), you would have been able to use another action to move to your newly placed tile.
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Yves Tourigny
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I think the programming might be a little too strict on its interpretation of the rules in this specific instance. The top half of the tile is frozen solid, and is therefore considered to be entirely land. Because the bottom part of the tile is unfrozen, and the two land parts of the tile are separate, it is interpreting the gap as unbridgeable, whereas I would consider it passable since clearly you can see the land part connecting to the frozen part.
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Martin Godolakis
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Yves Tourigny wrote:
I think the programming might be a little too strict on its interpretation of the rules in this specific instance. The top half of the tile is frozen solid, and is therefore considered to be entirely land. Because the bottom part of the tile is unfrozen, and the two land parts of the tile are separate, it is interpreting the gap as unbridgeable, whereas I would consider it passable since clearly you can see the land part connecting to the frozen part.


Thanks for the confirmation, and for a fantastic fun game.
I'll file a bug report on BGA.
 
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Martin Godolakis
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Seems there are more than one bug to fix at BGA.
Now that the next turn began and the ice thawed completely on said tile, I got asked what island to position my sled on and naturally I chose the northern island.
Is that always the case(you get a choice) when part of a tile is frozen and thawed, no matter the layout of the tile or where on the tile(on land or ice) the sled is?
 
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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goonzo wrote:
Yves Tourigny wrote:
I think the programming might be a little too strict on its interpretation of the rules in this specific instance. The top half of the tile is frozen solid, and is therefore considered to be entirely land. Because the bottom part of the tile is unfrozen, and the two land parts of the tile are separate, it is interpreting the gap as unbridgeable, whereas I would consider it passable since clearly you can see the land part connecting to the frozen part.


Thanks for the confirmation, and for a fantastic fun game.
I'll file a bug report on BGA.


Thank you indeed, both for the clarification and a great game!
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Nicholas Hjelmberg
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goonzo wrote:
Seems there are more than one bug to fix at BGA.
Now that the next turn began and the ice thawed completely on said tile, I got asked what island to position my sled on and naturally I chose the northern island.
Is that always the case(you get a choice) when part of a tile is frozen and thawed, no matter the layout of the tile or where on the tile(on land or ice) the sled is?


That sounds like another bug to me. The rules say that a sled has to be moved to a land area or a frozen area of the tile. Given that BGA ruled that there was water between your sled and the Northern part of the tile, you shouldn't be able to choose to place the sled on the Northern part (although I can't find a rule that explicitly say so).

But as Yves stated, BGA ruled wrong and there shouldn't have been water between your sled and the Northern part in the first place, in which case you may choose where to move when it thaws.

It seems like two bugs made it right and your sled didn't end up on an isolated island after all.
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Peter L
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Got the same issue. Only allowed to move to the Tile in the upperwest/North from sled.
Already filed a bug report.
Other games with ENWP are without issues...



 
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