Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » Rules

Subject: Modifiers +/- 2 cap rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Anders Pedersen
Denmark
Copenhagen N.
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rereading the rulebook, I have managed to completely confuse myself - how is the +2/-2 modifier cap (p. 19) handled?

I noticed QW said, in the Kickstarter forums, that the Spartans can get a +3 bonus, if the unit is complete.

I thought no single modifier could go beyond +/- 2?
What is it I am suddenly missing?
I have only managed to find this other QW quote:

“the +2 cap is for situations when you could get bonuses from multiple sources. Let's say you were attacked and were standing in terrain which gave you a +1 defence. And then you had a friend in the same area who gave you another +1. And another friend in an adjacent area who gave you a +2. Your total bonus would be +2, not +4, because of the cap. It's a way to avoid cheesy combos that make the game dull and unchallenging.“

When is the cap applied and where does it not apply, in combat?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Castro
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Page 19: "When calculating modifiers, add up all that apply. If a
single modifier is greater than +2 or worse than -2,
then that is the maximum possible bonus/penalty.
Otherwise, the total effect cannot be worse than -2, or
greater than +2."

In the case of the spartan, they are considered to have a single modifier of value 3 (3 comes from 1 per spartan, but it is still the same single modifier). As the rules state, if a single modifier is greater than +/-2 then that modifier is the new max. Never to exceed 10 offence/defense or below 0.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mark horneff
United Kingdom
london
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi

Are you sure it’s considered a single modifier of +3 Amd not three modifiers of +1, i say this as if it was a single modifier wouldnt it be you get +x where x is the number of models in the unit?

It seems strange that the Spartans are restricted in this way when other troops seem to need a minimum of models to qualify for their modifier.

I wonder if the intention when talking about modifiers relates to modifiers from an external source other than the unit card.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Castro
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
decaramas wrote:
Hi

Are you sure it’s considered a single modifier of +3 Amd not three modifiers of +1, i say this as if it was a single modifier wouldnt it be you get +x where x is the number of models in the unit?

It seems strange that the Spartans are restricted in this way when other troops seem to need a minimum of models to qualify for their modifier.

I wonder if the intention when talking about modifiers relates to modifiers from an external source other than the unit card.



I'm sure my statement is accurate, since it is a paraphrasing of QW on the Kickstarter comment section.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Jansson
Sweden
Trollhättan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well that's a disappointment. Can't Bolster the Spartans.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberto Clemente
Norway
Sandefjord
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Evil_X wrote:
Well that's a disappointment. Can't Bolster the Spartans. :(


Neither can you with the Hell Hounds.

It feels veeery counterintuitive that these units can't get bolstered when complete.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Loig Roumois
Switzerland
Baden
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
we play without the +2/-2 max for on-card boni. We only cap boni coming from "external" sources, eg. from terrain effects or other units.
Especially the troop bonus we do not cap as the troops feel underwhelming enough already.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
guest guest
United States
Danvers
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Evil_X wrote:
Well that's a disappointment. Can't Bolster the Spartans.


So far we've played it so that the modifier limits only apply to modifiers coming from "outside" so to say. External modifiers. We didn't really count it toward the limit when a unit modifies itself.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anders Pedersen
Denmark
Copenhagen N.
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jfc1005 wrote:
Page 19: "When calculating modifiers, add up all that apply. If a
single modifier is greater than +2 or worse than -2,
then that is the maximum possible bonus/penalty.
Otherwise, the total effect cannot be worse than -2, or
greater than +2."

In the case of the spartan, they are considered to have a single modifier of value 3 (3 comes from 1 per spartan, but it is still the same single modifier). As the rules state, if a single modifier is greater than +/-2 then that modifier is the new max. Never to exceed 10 offence/defense or below 0.


Ahh, so that is what they meant.
Why didn’t they just say so? cool

Thanks for the clarification. For some reason I could make no sense out of the rules as written.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Castro
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
decaramas wrote:
Hi

Are you sure it’s considered a single modifier of +3 Amd not three modifiers of +1, i say this as if it was a single modifier wouldnt it be you get +x where x is the number of models in the unit?

It seems strange that the Spartans are restricted in this way when other troops seem to need a minimum of models to qualify for their modifier.

I wonder if the intention when talking about modifiers relates to modifiers from an external source other than the unit card.



For the benefit of all Others:

see official reply: "@Mark Horneff - the Spartans get +3. it's a single (though variable) modifier."

and

"@Mario - the rule on page 19 says "add up all that apply", then check to see if the single modifier limit applies, then apply the +2/-2 limit.
So, a complete Spartan unit with +3, that also had a +1 and -1 applying to it would start by adding this all up. Then they would see if that total was a single modifier. In their case it is, so they keep it. If they had a +2, a second +2, and a -1, then their max would be +2 because the second step would not apply.
Make sense?"

This should hopefully put this question to rest.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Kissling
Switzerland
Olten
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dbc- wrote:
jfc1005 wrote:
Page 19: "When calculating modifiers, add up all that apply. If a
single modifier is greater than +2 or worse than -2,
then that is the maximum possible bonus/penalty.
Otherwise, the total effect cannot be worse than -2, or
greater than +2."

In the case of the spartan, they are considered to have a single modifier of value 3 (3 comes from 1 per spartan, but it is still the same single modifier). As the rules state, if a single modifier is greater than +/-2 then that modifier is the new max. Never to exceed 10 offence/defense or below 0.


Ahh, so that is what they meant.
Why didn’t they just say so? cool

Thanks for the clarification. For some reason I could make no sense out of the rules as written.


I strugled too... a realy fiddly thing...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Dolan
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Guest wrote:
So far we've played it so that the modifier limits only apply to modifiers coming from "outside" so to say. External modifiers. We didn't really count it toward the limit when a unit modifies itself.

I thought this was the correct way to read troops.

Since troops have no abilities (the ability icons do not appear on their cards), I read their text to be a replacement for dashboard rows with decreasing stats as they take damage (just minus a stat clip). That variable base level can then be modified by things like talents and abilities.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Castro
United States
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Obsidiox wrote:
Guest wrote:
So far we've played it so that the modifier limits only apply to modifiers coming from "outside" so to say. External modifiers. We didn't really count it toward the limit when a unit modifies itself.

I thought this was the correct way to read troops.

Since troops have no abilities (the ability icons do not appear on their cards), I read their text to be a replacement for dashboard rows with decreasing stats as they take damage (just minus a stat clip). That variable base level can then be modified by things like talents and abilities.


Of course you are welcome to play the game in any way you'd like. But your particular practice would not aligned with the Mythic Games replay clarifying how the +/-2 modifier works.

Again, nothing stopping you from playing any which way you'd like.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brendan Dolan
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jfc1005 wrote:
Obsidiox wrote:
Guest wrote:
So far we've played it so that the modifier limits only apply to modifiers coming from "outside" so to say. External modifiers. We didn't really count it toward the limit when a unit modifies itself.

I thought this was the correct way to read troops.

Since troops have no abilities (the ability icons do not appear on their cards), I read their text to be a replacement for dashboard rows with decreasing stats as they take damage (just minus a stat clip). That variable base level can then be modified by things like talents and abilities.


Of course you are welcome to play the game in any way you'd like. But your particular practice would not aligned with the Mythic Games replay clarifying how the +/-2 modifier works.

Again, nothing stopping you from playing any which way you'd like.

I don’t believe it is that clear. This topic was discussed as part of the draft rules review on the MBP official forum. It ran through several threads but was summed up here:
http://agoodplace.forumactif.com/t267p75-2-9-beta-version
With the intent being stated that the variation in troops strength due to gain/loss of individuals was a “mass effect” that was independent of talents and abilities.

Additionally the language in the rules states:
Page 19 says “When calculating modifiers…”
Page 26 “A talent’s numerical modifiers…”
Page 7 in describing troop cards “Many troops gain bonuses based on the number of miniatures”

Based on the forum intent and what seems to be a purposeful use of different terms in the rule book (modifier vs. bonus), I think the intent of the game designers was to have troops with variable attack/defense in addition to talent based modifiers.

This differentiation between a mass effect bonus and talent modifier makes sense in the context of some of the best heroes to use with troops: Leonidas & Penthesilea – they have the bolster talent and abilities that specifically modify troop attributes – that combination would be pointless for use with any complete troop.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.