Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Stalingrad Inferno on the Volga» Forums » General

Subject: Sorry, but not impressed after reading the KS. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ben Bosmans
Belgium
Mechelen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I read the rules, looked up all information I could find and I have a rather bleak initial impression about this game.


I counted the playable hexes... 20-25? So how many kms is just one hex to fight over ? What's the scale?

Very odd indeed if you have this kind of City fight with individual hexes covering one km (or more)...

Also the AI is based on die rolls? No assessment of state of human player units, AI units, general boardgame situation.

I am not exactly calling for a possible 6-10 step AI programming per card draw (while being spoiled by the CoH solo system), but this looks underwhelming in scale, AI programming and certainly playable space.

I mean 25 hexes is something like 6x5 hex rows, that's not even half of the smallest C&C boards.

And it is not that you lay a colored photo underneath that makes the map wider...

All questions that need to be adressed I guess as I am indeed a solo wargamer and find Stalingrad very interesting.

Isn't it odd you would take such a scale for simulating a city fight ?



3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emanuele Santandrea
Italy
Milano
MI
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
I love it when a plan comes together!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello Benny,

and thanks for writing.

The map is much larger, it has 109 playable hex (have no idea where you find it is only 20-25 hexes, as it is clearly stated in the rules - page 1 - that there are 109 playable hexes).

Does it help?

ALL THE BEST


emanuele

P.S.
It is page 3 if you do count the cover.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Boersma
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Ben_Bos wrote:
I read the rules, looked up all information I could find and I have a rather bleak initial impression about this game.


I counted the playable hexes... 20-25? So how many kms is just one hex to fight over ? What's the scale?

Very odd indeed if you have this kind of City fight with individual hexes covering one km (or more)...

Also the AI is based on die rolls? No assessment of state of human player units, AI units, general boardgame situation.

I am not exactly calling for a possible 6-10 step AI programming per card draw (while being spoiled by the CoH solo system), but this looks underwhelming in scale, AI programming and certainly playable space.

I mean 25 hexes is something like 6x5 hex rows, that's not even half of the smallest C&C boards.

And it is not that you lay a colored photo underneath that makes the map wider...

All questions that need to be adressed I guess as I am indeed a solo wargamer and find Stalingrad very interesting.

Isn't it odd you would take such a scale for simulating a city fight ?





I only read two real questions here , the first of which has already been addressed by Emanuele (I just love how quick he always is to respond to any question one might have and to emails etc.-I also own Moscow '41 and Leningrad '41, which is how I know-.

I am, however, just like you, interested in how detailed the AI is, but perhaps even more importantly,how well it works. After all, if a less complicated system works very well, I personally don't see the need to complicate matters. Mind you, I certainly enjoy realism, which usually means more complexity, but one of the things that also really appeals to me in this game, at least as advertised, is the playing time (40-60 minutes). Usually, considering my playing style, this means double that time for me personally, but that'd still be great . Adding a more complex AI system might increase playing time. So I guess it's give and take...

I do agree with you, if it is indeed "true" that a mere die roll determines what the Soviet AI does, it seems a bit odd at first sight (I've only glanced over the rules twice; I haven't yet read them in detail). Yes, taking into consideration the situation on the board, would make sense. Then again, how aware were the troops on the ground of the actual situation/ strength of the opponent's forces etc.

I do own the CoH solo expansion, but unfortunately I've never had it hit the table so far. I've heard a lot of positive comments on those rules, though, so perhaps it's time I did!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Bosmans
Belgium
Mechelen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tx for both replies.

I counted around 25 hexes because of the colours you use on the - hard to see details - map on the KS pages.

Do you mean the "greyed out" hexes can be fought over too ?

It is really a kind of disturbing thing, why are there such huge parts of the map blank/greyed out.

And still: what is the scale per hex? Since it is 1 cm=333m My guess is indeed 1 km in view of the blocks in the pictures.

Now I STILL am interested but I simply could not make head or tails on this map image. I mean the total playing map.


Secondly, I am not asking a 55 card and 6-10 different programming lines per card as CoH with its great solo expansion did. I am just noticing that dice only to decide AI bot strategies tend to be rather unreliable and cause "gamer corrections", which I would hate really.

I am not AGAINST any AI bot system per se, but actually testing this would be nice before purchasing. I guess that's the faith of any KS.

A last question: will the game be published afterwards ? Like Moscow41 as I bought that a few weeks ago at my local retail shop.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Janik-Jones
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Up Front fan, Cats were once worshipped as gods and they haven't forgotten this, Combat Commander series fan, The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me!, Fields of Fire fan
badge
Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am also having a hard time imagining the map ... to me it looks like a beautiful photo-realistic redrawing of the urban area of the city (absolutely gorgeous, btw), then a washed out grey over the vast majority of the rest of the map area.


Is that very large grey area shown in all of the playtest images going to be coloured as well, I hope?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Filip Labarque
Belgium
Kortrijk
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The map is still Work-in-progress. It will be fully colorized. Those grey areas are just parts that still need to be processed. I saw high-resolution images of the map and it looks absolutely amazing.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Boersma
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Flupperdeflup wrote:
The map is still Work-in-progress. It will be fully colorized. Those grey areas are just parts that still need to be processed. I saw high-resolution images of the map and it looks absolutely amazing.


Yes, I do believe this and other things are expressly addressed in the KS FAQ.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've just seen it more fully explained on the FAQ.

Will post that message here, since this is such an important question (and it's such an incredible map).

Quote:
The entire map will be as the "color portion" you see.

We started with a series of actual "recon" photos from the Luftwaffe, taken just before the battle began in August, 1942. First we had to overlay and 'tile' them to make one single map, and then we started working on the black and white photography, both to 'colorize" and make the details even more sharp. Each hex is taking hours of meticulous work and we are showing what has been completed so far, but we want to give you a sense of the scale of the map. We know it's odd in appearance, but it was the best we can do at showing you near "final art" for a small portion but letting you see what the whole map will be like.

THE WHOLE MAP WILL BE IN COLOR! We hope that makes sense?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Janik-Jones
Canada
Waterloo
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Up Front fan, Cats were once worshipped as gods and they haven't forgotten this, Combat Commander series fan, The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me!, Fields of Fire fan
badge
Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks!!!! Can't wait to see the final map.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The map is 'full'-- plenty to be impressed by
Okay, let's get very tangible.

This image shows how the Luftwaffe recon photos were "tiled" together to make a single image.




The area within the purple box will be the urban area covered in great detail in the Collector so,

The entire image will ALL be colorized and enhanced, just like the portion shown in color.

This is a very time consuming process and the VNG guys could not get any more finished in time for the kickstarter launch.

But it's going to be beautiful, and it's going to be plenty of play area.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
A last question: will the game be published afterwards ? Like Moscow41 as I bought that a few weeks ago at my local retail shop.


It certainly will be published. But the price will be higher...accounting says at least 75 or even 80 euros. And the things called "free stretch goals" either won't be available or woukd be sold extra.

VN games aren't carried by those on-line discounters that some folks expect to find games at 35-40% off.

So the real bargain is right now, on the Kickstarter.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Boersma
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
kduke wrote:
Quote:
A last question: will the game be published afterwards ? Like Moscow41 as I bought that a few weeks ago at my local retail shop.


It certainly will be published. But the price will be higher...accounting says at least 75 or even 80 euros. And the things called "free stretch goals" either won't be available or woukd be sold extra.

VN games aren't carried by those on-line discounters that some folks expect to find games at 35-40% off.

So the real bargain is right now, on the Kickstarter.


I feel the price the game is offered for in this KS campaign is a bargain. Just considering how much time, effort is being spent on the map alone!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Wallace
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ARE YOU IMPRESSED NOW, that you see your assumptions were wrong?
I agree. The map is going to be very special.


I'd like to know if Ben-Bos, having posted a pretty nasty thread title that was based on him misunderstanding what was going on, would care to revise his perceptions?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.