Mark
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OK, to you people who delighted in mocking folks like me who were a little late to join the Cult of Alternating Actions, I say again, 2600 year-old chess uses alternating actions. So, welcome to 600 BC! And, I do play hex-and-counter military simulation boardgames that use alternating actions. And, even some GW games that do, too (Gangs of Commorragh, Betrayal at Calth). But, I have not, and will not play your fancy-pants so-called modern alternating actions SKIRMISH games like Imperial Assault (R2D2 RNot UR2!) and whatnot. And, I don't like green Eggs and Ham, Dammit!

But, it goes against my every blessed molecule to say that after one dang New Necromunda game, I might actually like this "modern" alternating action thing. There, I sort of said it. Happy?


As it turns out, having a free flowing alternating action sequence with well thought out Actions is intriguing and quite tactical. I thought it would be awkward to learn and use the actions. But, they are pretty natural. Now, there is an unavoidable "gamey" feel to implementing them. Perhaps because by always looking for the best combo (or, order) of actions with each situation, it initially felt like I was being clever, instead of tactical. And, you don't know me, but "clever" is a foreign feeling for me.

I do hope I don't find the actions become rote. I was happy to note that my old, tried and true Necromunda maxims still work. I don't do Grand Plans, and I rarely have a Fallback plan. And, while I would LOVE to be able to rely on the occasional against-all-odds "One-in-a-million-chance-Scotty" heroics to save the day, I'm afraid Lady Luck did me a few solids back in my Navy Days. And, I still owe her. Instead, I live and die by Micro-Aggressions. I strive to set up and maneuver so to develop small situations that favor my gangers. I run them in teams of three or two. I keep the teams in mutual support range. I try to pick off isolated opponent gangers, or teams. I deeply believe in the twin canons of Local Superiority, and Overwhelming Force. So far, Neo-Necro supports my keep it simple "style" well. It offers multiple ways to get things done my way. So, after one whole game, I am leaning your way.

So, Mockers, you were right. I was not right. I grudgingly apologize.

Now, get off my lawn!
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N_O_ Y_B
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Man, you should have pointed me in their direction and I could have mocked them for (what sounds like) so highly praising alternating activations! :D

I'm of course saying this in jest, mocking people is almost never kosher, but I'm patiently waiting for Games Workshop to have resource-based activation systems (or at any rate non-IGO-UGO AND non-alternating activation systems).

Note: Did not read original thread being referenced.
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Brian M
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Cool that you are learning to like new things.

I generally prefer systems with something other than IGO-UGO, but for really big games it can be a real pain to keep track of which units have activated. Sometimes IGO-UGO is just a lot faster and simpler.
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Chad Egbert
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Not that it's really necessary with small gangs, but are their tokens with the game to indicate which minis have taken actions?
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Rob

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This is kind of a tangent, but I really like the 'draw' method of activation used in Bolt Action. It cranks up the intensity of every action and turn.
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Nick Johnson
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Saber72 wrote:
This is kind of a tangent, but I really like the 'draw' method of activation used in Bolt Action. It cranks up the intensity of every action and turn.


Test of Honour has something similar but they add a 3rd set of tokens, draw three of them and the round ends. So now you have to really decide what you want to do on your turn because it could end on the next pull.
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Michael Matecha
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Saber72 wrote:
This is kind of a tangent, but I really like the 'draw' method of activation used in Bolt Action. It cranks up the intensity of every action and turn.

YES!

I love random draw as well!


Grodd1016 wrote:
Test of Honour has something similar but they add a 3rd set of tokens, draw three of them and the round ends. So now you have to really decide what you want to do on your turn because it could end on the next pull.

I love the ToH random ending and the way you drop 3-tokens for a Samurai in the draw bag/cup but only 1 for a commoner.

About 20% of my playtesters for one of my WWII game designs absolutely hate how it has a random draw activation and the rest love it.


ZombieMark wrote:
Now, there is an unavoidable "gamey" feel to implementing them. Perhaps because by always looking for the best combo (or, order) of actions with each situation, it initially felt like I was being clever, instead of tactical. And, you don't know me, but "clever" is a forign feeling for me.

Mark I absolutely get how.. strategic? tactical? Stratical! it feels in a full-army IGO-UGO when you can combo your moves laying down suppression fire before cracking them open. It's also easier to keep it all in your head during your turn.
Flip side to that is sitting there biting your nails and sweating while their ENTIRE ARMY has its way with you on their turn (apart from reaction and overwatch of course)

Buuuuuut I also enjoy the alternate activation strategies/tactics... stractics with the extra decisions of 'do I attack unit A who is closest and easier to hit but has already activated and is therefore less a threat? or attempt to attack unit B who has yet to activate?'

Theme and story are the most important parts of any game to me and thematically I prefer alternating actions. One army is unlikely to hunker down and wait while the other side advances to cover and takes shots at them. I like the thought of the hectic nature of battle never knowing which soldier will lean around the slime barrel to fire off a burst from his bolter or who will leap out of cover giving me a chance to shoot him right after.

Glad you aren't afraid to try new ways to enjoy games Mark.
Everyone should take inspiration from that
 
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D. Patton
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pekin2121 wrote:
Not that it's really necessary with small gangs, but are their tokens with the game to indicate which minis have taken actions?


If I understand from watching the video, at the start of a round every model is marked with a 'ready' token. Once you activate a model you remove its ready token. I've seen it done in reverse in other games (place tokens only once a model is activated) but it works either way as long as everyone does the same thing.
 
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Brian M
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privateer4hire wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
Not that it's really necessary with small gangs, but are their tokens with the game to indicate which minis have taken actions?


If I understand from watching the video, at the start of a round every model is marked with a 'ready' token. Once you activate a model you remove its ready token. I've seen it done in reverse in other games (place tokens only once a model is activated) but it works either way as long as everyone does the same thing.

In some games (not Necromunda), we've been in the habit of placing tokens one turn, then removing them the next, so there's no "clean up" phase. Works well as long as you can remember whether you're placing or removing this turn.
 
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Mark
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Saber72 wrote:
This is kind of a tangent, but I really like the 'draw' method of activation used in Bolt Action. It cranks up the intensity of every action and turn.

I'm so spring loaded to mock draw method advocates. But, my favorite platoon level hex-and counter game system uses them. I think they might make a skirmish game like Necro a bit too chaotic. Maybe.

With a low model count, using the Activation counters on the ganger's cards (or roster sheet), seems to work. Just put them on the card at the beginning of the turn and take them off during activations.
 
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John Middleton
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StormKnight wrote:
Cool that you are learning to like new things.

I generally prefer systems with something other than IGO-UGO, but for really big games it can be a real pain to keep track of which units have activated. Sometimes IGO-UGO is just a lot faster and simpler.



This.


It is entirely dependent on how many units you have to control. Skirmish is easy. Larger games can really suck with odd activations.


About the only game that really did it well was Space Marine, and that was mostly due to the cool interaction of the various orders.

In most hex and counter wargames with more than 30 units, anything but alternating is usually more trouble than it's worth.
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Major Havok
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Ash at Guerrilla Miniature Games did a video recently titled "The Endless Debate: IGOUGO vs. Integrated Game Turn", good stuff...

https://youtu.be/e_Ep711GHq8
 
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Mark
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WhiteRider27 wrote:
.Note: Did not read original thread being referenced.


More of a feeling, than an actual thing.

Oh, and I do most of my mocking with an askance eyebrow and eyeroll. Trust me, it's devastating.
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ZombieMark wrote:
WhiteRider27 wrote:
.Note: Did not read original thread being referenced.


More of a feeling, than an actual thing.

Oh, and I do most of my mocking with an askance eyebrow and eyeroll. Trust me, it's devastating.


:thumbsup:
 
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Mark
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The Crow I am about to eat has been marinating the entire time it's taken me to play four games (a couple of weeks). I guess if I had to choose between Old Necro's game system, and New Necro's...I'd...go...New.

Damn, that was hard to write. But, this new (to me) system plays so smoothly. And, has more options. And, more tense moments.

No, the rules are not perfect (a lot not perfect, but, I'm sure the inevitable ton of FAQ's will iron out the kinks). And, no, the gangs aren't balanced (I'm looking at you Goliath Gangers and Juves, with your same dang Cool as my Escher Leader!...What the You-know-what!). And, no, I still have not played the campaign. But, I have read it is less RPG-ish than the old, and more in keeping with modern sensibilities. Now, you know I'm just itching to take issue with that, so badly. But, that was the Old Me.

The New Me has played four New Necromunda games in the last two weeks! That's more Necromunda games than I've played in the last two years. So, whatever it takes to get you kids off the XBox and playing manly miniature games with me, I'm all about that.
Now, don't get all cocky, ya'll. I can still dang well mock the heck out of you at the drop of a hat. So, jes watch yer step!
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